Hi Folks
I have placed the Botany on these links they are 3 " Mystery " plants
for feed back .
The first is an unidentified what I believe Orchid Query ??????? I
wonder if it is related to the Broad Leaved Helleborine as it was in
close proximity Mystery 1
http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/mystery_orchid.html
The second is a Melilot - Tall Melilot I think
http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/melilot.html
The third Hemp Agrimony not too much in dispute. This seems widely
abundant around Arnised and the Nature Reserves at the moment
http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/hemp_agrimony
The fourth on lime Agrimony but based on the smell it would appear to
be the fragrant species - lemon. Anyone keyed up on distinguishing
the two types of Agrimony
http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/agrimony.html
The fifth a delicate pale lemon plant found on the slopes of Redhill
pastures Mystery 2
http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/mystery2.html
The sixth an Eyebright but I would say you would have to be pretty
good to come up with a sub species
http://www.judywoods.dial.pipex.com/plants/eyebright.html
The seventh Rock Rose
http://www.judywoods.dial.pipex.com/plants/comrockrose.html
The Eighth a Broad Leaved Helleborine
http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/broad_helleborine.html
The Ninth a small purple plant found on the floor of Trowbarrow
quarry Myster 3
http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/mystery3.html
The tenth A Carline Thistle found on the floor of Trowbarrow Quarry
Finally the eleventh just for interest Sea Aster on the slat mudflats
common on the Lancs Coast
http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/sea_aster.html
I also found Specimens of Wood Sage growing on the limestone
Pavements in Gait Barrow which is unusual in so much as it prefers
Acid Soil but there you go Extreme Toelrance !!! because the book
says so does nt mean it will !
Many thanks in anticipation
Regards
Colin D
http://www.judywoods.dial.pipex.com
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg3NDU4OTkxBHRwY0=
lkAzQ5ODg-> (1) Reply (via web post)
AMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTg3NDU4OTkx=
?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D4988> | Start a new topic
YzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ1ODk5M=
Q-->
Messages
IEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ1ODk5MQ--> | Files
UEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NTg5OTE->=
| Photos
Ec2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ1ODk5MQ--> | Links
EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NTg5OTE-> =
| Database
dHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NTg5OTE-> | Polls
Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NTg5OTE-> |=
Members
Ec2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ1ODk5MQ--> | Calendar
DYzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTg3NDU4OTkx=
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTg3NDU4OTkx>
Change settings via the Web
yOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NTg5OTE-> (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
t to Traditional
Visit Your Group
IEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTg3NDU4OTkx> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
Visit Your Group
wEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ1ODk5MQ-->
Hu Colin,
Always like a mystery (or two)...
> http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/mystery_orchid.html
Don't think it's a Helleborine. I'd go for Fragrant (long spur on dad
flowers, narrow unspotted leaves).
> http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/agrimony.html
Suspect the common one. Fragrant Agrimony FOLIAGE smells more of roses than
lemon, but the common one can be weakly scented too. How tall was it?
Fragrant Agrimony is usually much taller than Common, over a meter.
> http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/mystery2.html
Ladies Bedstraw. Is it my imagination or are they more upright this year?
> http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/mystery3.html
Wild Thyme (can never separate the two spp!)
HTH
Malcolm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
:UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5ODkEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg3NDYzNjYwBHRwY0=
lkAzQ5ODg-> (0) Reply (via web post)
AMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5ODkEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTg3NDYzNjYw=
?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D4989> | Start a new topic
YzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ2MzY2M=
A-->
Messages
IEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ2MzY2MA--> | Files
UEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NjM2NjA->=
| Photos
Ec2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ2MzY2MA--> | Links
EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NjM2NjA-> =
| Database
dHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NjM2NjA-> | Polls
Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NjM2NjA-> |=
Members
Ec2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ2MzY2MA--> | Calendar
DYzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTg3NDYzNjYw=
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTg3NDYzNjYw>
Change settings via the Web
yOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NjM2NjA-> (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
t to Traditional
Visit Your Group
IEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTg3NDYzNjYw> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
Visit Your Group
wEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ2MzY2MA-->
Hi Malcolm
Just back from Arnside - had a whale of a time !!
I think I got a shot of a High Brown Fritillary Query and also the
Scotch Argus
http://www.judywoods.bravehost.com/butterflies/fritillary.html
Just as a matter of semantics to make the Botanical Link i think it
was likely feeding on the same plant source that attracted the
Brimstones to the same spot
Ladies Bedstraw and Wild Thyme make sense
The Orchid has clearly flowered and past its sell by date absence of
the basal broadleaves would mean its not the Broad Leaved Helleborine
in a frazzled state so i would say you are right most likely the
Fragrant Orchid - Should have been up there ealier !!
The Scent on Agrimony was fragrant and may well have been Flowery-
lemony certainly notable. It was at the entrance to Trowbarrow aside
the old lime /track workings although this could have technically
been a garden escapee. The size of the plant when elevated would have
be been 3 ft or so. Wil look in Stace to see if ythye are more
definitive characters to look for
The Carline Thistle is easy enough
http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/carline_thistle.html
Many Thanks your feedback always valued
Regards
Colin D
--- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
m Storey"
dad
> flowers, narrow unspotted leaves).
> http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/agrimony.html
> Suspect the common one. Fragrant Agrimony FOLIAGE smells more of
roses than
> lemon, but the common one can be weakly scented too. How tall was
it?
> Fragrant Agrimony is usually much taller than Common, over a meter.
> http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/mystery2.html
> Ladies Bedstraw. Is it my imagination or are they more upright this
year?
to:UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf
plants
> for feed back .
> The first is an unidentified what I believe Orchid Query ??????? I
> wonder if it is related to the Broad Leaved Helleborine as it was
in
appear to
Redhill
Quarry
> Finally the eleventh just for interest Sea Aster on the slat
mudflats
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg3NDc1NjE5BHRwY0=
lkAzQ5ODg-> (0) Reply (via web post)
AMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTg3NDc1NjE5=
?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D4990> | Start a new topic
YzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ3NTYxO=
Q-->
Messages
IEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ3NTYxOQ--> | Files
UEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NzU2MTk->=
| Photos
Ec2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ3NTYxOQ--> | Links
EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NzU2MTk-> =
| Database
dHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NzU2MTk-> | Polls
Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NzU2MTk-> |=
Members
Ec2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ3NTYxOQ--> | Calendar
DYzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTg3NDc1NjE5=
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTg3NDc1NjE5>
Change settings via the Web
yOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODc0NzU2MTk-> (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
t to Traditional
Visit Your Group
IEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTg3NDc1NjE5> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
Visit Your Group
wEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzQ3NTYxOQ-->
Agrimonia procera has been recorded in Trowbarrow Quarry woods and one or t=
wo
other places in the Lancaster area.
Martin Sherlock, our plant recorder, may be able to give you more detail.
John Holding
Sec. North Lancashire Naturalists (Wildlife Trust)
--
_ _________________________________________
/ \._._ |_ _ _ /' Orpheus Internet Services
\_/| |_)| |(/_|_|_> / 'Internet for Everyone'
_______ | ___________./ http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTQ0OTkxBHRwY0=
lkAzQ5ODg-> (0) Reply (via web post)
AMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTQ0OTkx=
?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D4994> | Start a new topic
YzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU0NDk5M=
Q-->
Messages
IEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU0NDk5MQ--> | Files
UEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NDQ5OTE->=
| Photos
Ec2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU0NDk5MQ--> | Links
EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NDQ5OTE-> =
| Database
dHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NDQ5OTE-> | Polls
Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NDQ5OTE-> |=
Members
Ec2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU0NDk5MQ--> | Calendar
DYzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTg3NTQ0OTkx=
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTg3NTQ0OTkx>
Change settings via the Web
yOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NDQ5OTE-> (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
t to Traditional
Visit Your Group
IEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTQ0OTkx> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
Visit Your Group
wEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU0NDk5MQ-->
I'm with Malcolm on the orchid - very long, delicate spurs and a
relatively elongated head (which rules out pyramidal) leads to
fragrant - as you say, shame you weren't there earlier, the fragrance
really is wonderful!
Melilot for sure, but I'm afraid I don't know how to separate them
reliably.
Hemp agrimony - yup, it's in full flower here as well, possibly
taller than usual because of the rain.
Agrimony - you really need the seedpods: common has them usually
longer than wide, with all the hooked bristles facing down our
outwards away from the stalk, whereas fragrant has them relatively
wider with the ring of bristles at all angles including bent back
towards the stalk, so that the whole thing looks much more like a
round burr [sorry for the less than technical language].
The 'fragrance' I find difficult as a diagnostic, but in bright
sunshine you should be able to see the numerous glandular hairs on
the back of the leaves through a lens. I wouldn't entirely agree with
Malcolm that fragrant is taller than common, though it is true that
the smallest, weediest plants tend to be common. I also suspect they
hybridise (I get both spp here often growing more or less together,
and there are definitely puzzling intermediate plants).
Lady's bedstraw - yup (incidentally the first pic on your page is
broken).
Eyebright - hey, those are wonderful pics - I find it the very devil
to get a good shot of. Wouldn't even consider going to subspp :-)
Rockrose - lovely - classic limestone marker.
Helleborine - are the first three a different plant? The colour is
much pinker than any I've seen - the fourth one is much more typical
in my view.
Wild thyme - lovely in meat sandwiches :-) - and the butterflies and
bumbles adore it.
Sea aster - interesting colour variations in the central disk
florets - do they change colour on pollination as I believe some
other flowers do?
I have also found wood sage growing in limy areas, but usualy where
it is damper, or in woodland, where I think you sometimes get a layer
of organic material thick enough to insulate the roots from the lime -
leaf litter can be quite acidic.
Gill
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTI0MzUyBHRwY0=
lkAzQ5ODg-> (0) Reply (via web post)
AMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTI0MzUy=
?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D4991> | Start a new topic
YzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzUyNDM1M=
g-->
Messages
IEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzUyNDM1Mg--> | Files
UEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1MjQzNTI->=
| Photos
Ec2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzUyNDM1Mg--> | Links
EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1MjQzNTI-> =
| Database
dHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExODc1MjQzNTI-> | Polls
Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1MjQzNTI-> |=
Members
Ec2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzUyNDM1Mg--> | Calendar
DYzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTg3NTI0MzUy=
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTg3NTI0MzUy>
Change settings via the Web
yOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1MjQzNTI-> (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
t to Traditional
Visit Your Group
IEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTI0MzUy> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
Visit Your Group
wEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzUyNDM1Mg-->
> I have also found wood sage growing in limy areas, but usualy where
it is damper, or in woodland, where I think you sometimes get a layer
of organic material thick enough to insulate the roots from the lime -
leaf litter can be quite acidic.
.
=3D4991/stime=3D1187524352/nc1=3D4507179/nc2=3D3848567/nc3=3D4699082> [[Joh=
n Crellin]]
It's all over the Mendips - probably in similar conditions to that you
describe - but certainly not just the known acidic bits. I hadn't realised
it was not a limestone plant... __
Would explain the differences observed!
Phil
it is damper, or in woodland, where I think you sometimes get a layer
of organic material thick enough to insulate the roots from the lime -
leaf litter can be quite acidic.
.
=3D4991/stime=3D1187524352/nc1=3D4507179/nc2=3D3848567/nc3=3D4699082> [[Joh=
n Crellin]]
It's all over the Mendips - probably in similar conditions to that you
describe - but certainly not just the known acidic bits. I hadn't realised
it was not a limestone plant... __
Martin
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTUEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU2MTMxBHRwY0=
lkAzQ5ODg-> (0) Reply (via web post)
AMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTUEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU2MTMx=
?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D4995> | Start a new topic
YzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1NjEzM=
Q-->
Messages
IEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1NjEzMQ--> | Files
UEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTYxMzE->=
| Photos
Ec2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1NjEzMQ--> | Links
EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTYxMzE-> =
| Database
dHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTYxMzE-> | Polls
Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTYxMzE-> |=
Members
Ec2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1NjEzMQ--> | Calendar
DYzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU2MTMx=
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU2MTMx>
Change settings via the Web
yOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTYxMzE-> (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
t to Traditional
Visit Your Group
IEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU2MTMx> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
Visit Your Group
wEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1NjEzMQ-->
Hi Gill
Hope you are well . A long overdue break but what a beautiful spot
Thanks to both Malcolm and yourself on picking up the Scent on the
Fragrant Orchid.
I think the Melilot likely to be Tall but a more incisive look is
needed.
I think I am with you on the size of Agrimony but thats not objective
I havent looked or measured enough to be absolute . Nevertheless I
will do a blow up of some of the shots to see if any pointers from
Stace are there . Interesting comments on this plant Gill
BL helleborine I tghink it is only the one plant photgraphed in
differing light conditions and Av / Tv settings on the camera the
sun was low in the sky much to the benefit of the Common Lizards
which seemed agrieved that the plant was getting more atention than
them !!!
Eyebright - I took some pictures of Eyebright on the floor of
Trowbarrow (Featured) and also in the more typical grassland at
Gaitbarrow (to download yet)I havbe yet to compare but the ones on
the stony surface seemed more Woody. (Incidentally the Dragonflies
just love to bask on those roacks at the end of the Quarry - To post
soon). It will be interesting just to compare the two plants to see
if there are any obvious differences
Wild Thyme I am not sure about this one having come accross the
rather nice fragrance of the Agrimony earlier this littel plant did
not yield any scent. Could it be a Basil Thyme ?????
Sea Aster - yes an interesting plant . It has two flower types the
one i did not reflect being the rayless form which look like
oversized. I am not sure if they change colour on pollination but it
would be interesting toi here views from the group on this
Wood Sage yes the dwarf woodland trees limitted by mositure etc Hazel
Yew and other trees likely do generate the conditions required which
reminds me I have to download a littel plant that I found in one of
the Limestone Clints and Grikes on Gaitbarrow in the oraganic
material accumulated It would be interesting to see what it is more
to follow on ythat one
I am organising something weekend wise 20008 Spring Summer and
Autumn up that way next year . It may well be a worth while gathering
of minds . More to follow in terms of a programme if any folk need a
break or rejuvenation around that time
Best wishes
Colin D
--- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
s"
fragrance
with
> Malcolm that fragrant is taller than common, though it is true that
> the smallest, weediest plants tend to be common. I also suspect
they
devil
typical
> in my view.
> Wild thyme - lovely in meat sandwiches :-) - and the butterflies
and
layer
> of organic material thick enough to insulate the roots from the
lime -
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU5MjQwBHRwY0=
lkAzQ5ODg-> (0) Reply (via web post)
AMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU5MjQw=
?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D4998> | Start a new topic
YzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1OTI0M=
A-->
Messages
IEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1OTI0MA--> | Files
UEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTkyNDA->=
| Photos
Ec2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1OTI0MA--> | Links
EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTkyNDA-> =
| Database
dHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTkyNDA-> | Polls
Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTkyNDA-> |=
Members
Ec2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1OTI0MA--> | Calendar
DYzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU5MjQw=
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU5MjQw>
Change settings via the Web
yOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTkyNDA-> (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
t to Traditional
Visit Your Group
IEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU5MjQw> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
Visit Your Group
wEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1OTI0MA-->
Hi John
Thanks for that. I have a strong suspician that it is procera.
What a wonderful spot keep up the good work in this area as it is a
most outstanding example of people preserving a wonderful environment
Best Wishes
Colin D
--- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
@... wrote:
> On Sat 18 Aug 2007 (22:16:02), ogden@... wrote:
> The Scent on Agrimony was fragrant and may well have been Flowery-
> lemony certainly notable. It was at the entrance to Trowbarrow
aside
> the old lime /track workings although this could have technically
> been a garden escapee. The size of the plant when elevated would
have
> be been 3 ft or so. Wil look in Stace to see if ythye are more
> definitive characters to look for
> Agrimonia procera has been recorded in Trowbarrow Quarry woods and
one or two
> other places in the Lancaster area.
> Martin Sherlock, our plant recorder, may be able to give you more
detail.
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU4NTczBHRwY0=
lkAzQ5ODg-> (0) Reply (via web post)
AMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU4NTcz=
?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D4997> | Start a new topic
YzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1ODU3M=
w-->
Messages
IEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1ODU3Mw--> | Files
UEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTg1NzM->=
| Photos
Ec2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1ODU3Mw--> | Links
EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTg1NzM-> =
| Database
dHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTg1NzM-> | Polls
Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTg1NzM-> |=
Members
Ec2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1ODU3Mw--> | Calendar
DYzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU4NTcz=
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU4NTcz>
Change settings via the Web
yOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NTg1NzM-> (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
t to Traditional
Visit Your Group
IEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTU4NTcz> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
Visit Your Group
wEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU1ODU3Mw-->
Hi Phil / John
Well Read Phil . I guess that nails it !!!! It seems a lot trouble
though to justify an observation ;) LOL
Best Wishes
Colin D
Many
--- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
uke"
> Grime, Hodgson & Hunt in fact give 2 peaks of percent occurrence
vs. pH for Wood Sage, one between 4.0 and 5.0 and the second at >7,
which they say is "... a reflection of the known existence of
edaphic ecotypes" The reference for this statement is: Hutchinson,
T.C. 1968. Biological Flora of the British Isles: Teucrium
scorodonia L. J. Ecology 56, 901 -911.
where
> it is damper, or in woodland, where I think you sometimes get a
layer
> of organic material thick enough to insulate the roots from the
lime -
> leaf litter can be quite acidic.
> .
>
> =3D4991/stime=3D1187524352/nc1=3D4507179/nc2=3D3848567/nc3=3D4699082>
[[John Crellin]]
> It's all over the Mendips - probably in similar conditions to
that you
> describe - but certainly not just the known acidic bits. I hadn't
realised
Greetings Martin
Thank you for the info
I uploaded 3 more images to the agrimony Pictures reflecting Hairs on
the Lower Leave and Pits on the Upper blades . Yes you are right as
most of the plants where in flower there was not much in fruit bar
one stem which I have uploaded a shot of. I also have Grid SD
4772875721 . Does that correlate with your existing records.
http://www.willowherb.bravehost.com/plants/agrimony.html
Many thanks
Colin D
http://www.judywoods.dial.pipex.com
--- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
hyte"
> --- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
ns@ wrote:
> On Sat 18 Aug 2007 (22:16:02), ogden@ wrote:
> The Scent on Agrimony was fragrant and may well have been
Flowery-
> lemony certainly notable. It was at the entrance to Trowbarrow
aside
> the old lime /track workings although this could have
technically
> been a garden escapee. The size of the plant when elevated
would have
position
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTkEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTY1Mjg3BHRwY0=
lkAzQ5ODg-> (0) Reply (via web post)
AMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5OTkEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTY1Mjg3=
?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D4999> | Start a new topic
YzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU2NTI4N=
w-->
Messages
IEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU2NTI4Nw--> | Files
UEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NjUyODc->=
| Photos
Ec2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU2NTI4Nw--> | Links
EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NjUyODc-> =
| Database
dHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NjUyODc-> | Polls
Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NjUyODc-> |=
Members
Ec2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU2NTI4Nw--> | Calendar
DYzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTg3NTY1Mjg3=
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTg3NTY1Mjg3>
Change settings via the Web
yOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODc1NjUyODc-> (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
t to Traditional
Visit Your Group
IEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTg3NTY1Mjg3> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
Visit Your Group
wEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzU2NTI4Nw-->
Hello,
Wild Flora on Chalk & Limestone
http://www.flickr.com/groups/chalky/pool/
I have been ill, and even worse my computer died (new one not yet fully fun=
ctional), so I have not been able to participate in this discussion.
There are pictures on the web site gallery above.
Cheers
Andy Horton
Hi Phil / John
Well Read Phil . I guess that nails it !!!! It seems a lot trouble
though to justify an observation ;) LOL
Best Wishes
Colin D
Many
--- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
uke"
> Grime, Hodgson & Hunt in fact give 2 peaks of percent occurrence
vs. pH for Wood Sage, one between 4.0 and 5.0 and the second at >7,
which they say is "... a reflection of the known existence of
edaphic ecotypes" The reference for this statement is: Hutchinson,
T.C. 1968. Biological Flora of the British Isles: Teucrium
scorodonia L. J. Ecology 56, 901 -911.
where
> it is damper, or in woodland, where I think you sometimes get a
layer
> of organic material thick enough to insulate the roots from the
lime -
> leaf litter can be quite acidic.
> .
>
> =3D4991/stime=3D1187524352/nc1=3D4507179/nc2=3D3848567/nc3=3D4699082>
[[John Crellin]]
> It's all over the Mendips - probably in similar conditions to
that you
> describe - but certainly not just the known acidic bits. I hadn't
realised
"... a reflection of the known existence of
edaphic ecotypes" er, what does that mean in plain English? That
there are effectively two subspp. of wood sage?
Gill
--- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
uke2003"
Luke"
usualy
hadn't
Yes, I'm fine thank you.
<
not yield any scent. Could it be a Basil Thyme ?????>> No, don't think
so. Wild thyme isn't all that strong smelling unless you crush the
leaves (or, better, taste them - the thyminess is unmistakable then :-
) ).
Your mystery yellow plant from the grike is some kind of stonecrop -
most like the yellow Sedum acre except that usually has several flowers
together.
Gill
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzUwMDIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg3NjQ1NjM5BHRwY0=
lkAzQ5ODg-> (0) Reply (via web post)
AMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzUwMDIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTg3NjQ1NjM5=
?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D5002> | Start a new topic
YzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzY0NTYzO=
Q-->
Messages
IEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzY0NTYzOQ--> | Files
UEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExODc2NDU2Mzk->=
| Photos
Ec2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzY0NTYzOQ--> | Links
EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExODc2NDU2Mzk-> =
| Database
dHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExODc2NDU2Mzk-> | Polls
Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExODc2NDU2Mzk-> |=
Members
Ec2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzY0NTYzOQ--> | Calendar
DYzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTg3NjQ1NjM5=
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTg3NjQ1NjM5>
Change settings via the Web
yOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODc2NDU2Mzk-> (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
t to Traditional
Visit Your Group
IEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTg3NjQ1NjM5> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
Visit Your Group
wEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzY0NTYzOQ-->
<
I see someone said the two spp don't hybridise; I beg to differ, if
for no other reason than the BSBI plant list has
2710 Agrimonia eupatoria x procera (A. x wirtgenii)
Gill
--- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
uke2003"
on
ophyte"
> --- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
nxns@ wrote:
Trowbarrow
and
> one or two
> other places in the Lancaster area.
> Martin Sherlock, our plant recorder, may be able to give you
more
are
> just invisible in your photos. There are (slightly) scented forms
of
> common agrimony about. The best thing to use is the fruit, for
which
> you seem to have been a bit early. See the photos on
> http://www.habitas.org.uk/flora/species.asp?Item=3D3366 (for
procera,
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzUwMDQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg3NjQ2MDc3BHRwY0=
lkAzQ5ODg-> (0) Reply (via web post)
AMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzUwMDQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTg3NjQ2MDc3=
?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D5004> | Start a new topic
YzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzY0NjA3N=
w-->
Messages
IEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzY0NjA3Nw--> | Files
UEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExODc2NDYwNzc->=
| Photos
Ec2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzY0NjA3Nw--> | Links
EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExODc2NDYwNzc-> =
| Database
dHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExODc2NDYwNzc-> | Polls
Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExODc2NDYwNzc-> |=
Members
Ec2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzY0NjA3Nw--> | Calendar
DYzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTg3NjQ2MDc3=
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTg3NjQ2MDc3>
Change settings via the Web
yOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODc2NDYwNzc-> (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
t to Traditional
Visit Your Group
IEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTg3NjQ2MDc3> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
Visit Your Group
wEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzY0NjA3Nw-->
Don't shoot the messenger, I merely quoted from the book! My Dictionary of =
Biology gives an ecotype as; "A group of organisms within a species adapted=
genetically to the combination of environmental factors (i.e soil pH in th=
e case of Wood Sage) in their habitat, but able to to reproduce with other =
ecotypes of the same species. Differences betwen ecotypes may be physiologi=
cal or morphological." As far as I am aware this does not make ecotypes a s=
ubspecies, but they could presumably become so, in the normal course of spe=
ciation, if they become isolated from each other for some reason . Possibly=
someone else can add to this, but there may well be further explanation in=
the Biological Flora reference I gave which I haven't read.
Hope this helps.
Phil
"... a reflection of the known existence of
edaphic ecotypes" er, what does that mean in plain English? That
there are effectively two subspp. of wood sage?
Gill
--- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
uke2003"
Luke"
usualy
hadn't
> As far as I am aware this does not
> make ecotypes a subspecies,
No. Strictly "subspecies" (or "species" for that matter) refers to the name
not the organism. [eg Teucrium is a genus, Teucrium scorodonia is a species=
.
"Teucrium scorodonia" has a formal definition expressed in words, and maybe
with a single nominated preserved specimen (the "type" specimen) which is,
by definition, an example of this species. We can identify as, or "assign
to" the plants we're talking about as this species, but that's just using
the concept of "Teucrium scorodonia". The plants are real organisms, the
species is a human definition. I'm not expressing this very well!]
To become a subspecies it has to be formally "described" (ie published) wit=
h
a subspecies name (although subspecies aren't actually covered under the
Botanical Rules - the rules only go down to species level), whereas you can
say that a species (or subspecies, come to that) has multiple ecotypes
without formally giving them names. If you wanted to describe an ecotype as
a subspecies you'd have to give it a subspecies name and come up with ways
of distinguishing it, it just requires somebody to do this (ideally a
competent authority, but in theory anybody who can get it published).
Whether anybody else will ever take any notice and use the subspecies name
depends on three things:
1. where it's published. - in theory the classified section of your local
newspaper will do [do they have a "New Species" section in the
Announcements?), but in practice it's more likely to be noticed if publishe=
d
in the botanical literature.
2. how good a case is made.
3. who writes the article. In theory this doesn't matter, but in practice,
it's more likely to be read if by a known authority.
Finally there is this "ecad" thing which I've only ever seen used in
conjunction with the seaweed Ascophyllum nodosum, eg Ascophyllum nodosum
ecad mackayi
http://www.habitas.org.uk/priority/species.asp?item=3D661
cos some of them have conservation/BAP status.
HTH (but probably not!)
Malcolm (who's supposed to be filling in his tax form today so in a
talkative mood!)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
:UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
nduke2003"
il Luke"
Its all good stuff Malcolm !! As we live we learn !!!
Best wishes
Colin D
--- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
m Storey"
> As far as I am aware this does not
> make ecotypes a subspecies,
> No. Strictly "subspecies" (or "species" for that matter) refers to
the name
> not the organism. [eg Teucrium is a genus, Teucrium scorodonia is
a species.
> "Teucrium scorodonia" has a formal definition expressed in words,
and maybe
> with a single nominated preserved specimen (the "type" specimen)
which is,
> by definition, an example of this species. We can identify as,
or "assign
> to" the plants we're talking about as this species, but that's
just using
> the concept of "Teucrium scorodonia". The plants are real
organisms, the
> species is a human definition. I'm not expressing this very well!]
> To become a subspecies it has to be formally "described" (ie
published) with
> a subspecies name (although subspecies aren't actually covered
under the
> Botanical Rules - the rules only go down to species level),
whereas you can
> say that a species (or subspecies, come to that) has multiple
ecotypes
> without formally giving them names. If you wanted to describe an
ecotype as
> a subspecies you'd have to give it a subspecies name and come up
with ways
> of distinguishing it, it just requires somebody to do this
(ideally a
> competent authority, but in theory anybody who can get it
published).
> Whether anybody else will ever take any notice and use the
subspecies name
> depends on three things:
> 1. where it's published. - in theory the classified section of
your local
> newspaper will do [do they have a "New Species" section in the
> Announcements?), but in practice it's more likely to be noticed if
published
> in the botanical literature.
> 2. how good a case is made.
> 3. who writes the article. In theory this doesn't matter, but in
practice,
> it's more likely to be read if by a known authority.
> Finally there is this "ecad" thing which I've only ever seen used
in
> conjunction with the seaweed Ascophyllum nodosum, eg Ascophyllum
nodosum
to:UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf
Dictionary
> of Biology gives an ecotype as; "A group of organisms within a
species
> adapted genetically to the combination of environmental factors
(i.e soil
> pH in the case of Wood Sage) in their habitat, but able to to
reproduce
> with other ecotypes of the same species. Differences betwen
ecotypes may
> be physiological or morphological." As far as I am aware this
does not
> make ecotypes a subspecies, but they could presumably become so,
in the
> normal course of speciation, if they become isolated from each
other for
> some reason . Possibly someone else can add to this, but there
may well
> be further explanation in the Biological Flora reference I gave
which I
That
> there are effectively two subspp. of wood sage?
> Gill
> --- In UKBotany@yahoogroups.com
linduke2003"
wrote:
> Hi Phil / John
> Well Read Phil . I guess that nails it !!!! It seems a lot
trouble
Phil Luke"
> Grime, Hodgson & Hunt in fact give 2 peaks of percent
occurrence
> vs. pH for Wood Sage, one between 4.0 and 5.0 and the second
at >7,
> which they say is "... a reflection of the known existence of
> edaphic ecotypes" The reference for this statement is:
Hutchinson,
get a
> layer
> of organic material thick enough to insulate the roots
from the
2>
> [[John Crellin]]
> It's all over the Mendips - probably in similar conditions
to
<
impression!
Gill
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzUwMjYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTg3ODAyNTAwBHRwY0=
lkAzQ5ODg-> (0) Reply (via web post)
AMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BG1zZ0lkAzUwMjYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTg3ODAyNTAw=
?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D5026> | Start a new topic
YzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzgwMjUwM=
A-->
Messages
IEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzgwMjUwMA--> | Files
UEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExODc4MDI1MDA->=
| Photos
Ec2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzgwMjUwMA--> | Links
EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExODc4MDI1MDA-> =
| Database
dHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExODc4MDI1MDA-> | Polls
Z3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExODc4MDI1MDA-> |=
Members
Ec2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzgwMjUwMA--> | Calendar
DYzOTUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTg3ODAyNTAw=
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTg3ODAyNTAw>
Change settings via the Web
yOTQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODc4MDI1MDA-> (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
t to Traditional
Visit Your Group
IEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTg3ODAyNTAw> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
Visit Your Group
wEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NzgwMjUwMA-->
