Pat, What a wonderful treat! Nature's gifts!!! Sue ;-D
Patricia Ruggiero
Discovered a frog in the veg bed I was getting ready to plant. Immediately
got a clay saucer, filled it with pebbles and water and placed it partway
into a bean teepee (for shade and safety). Caught frog and put in saucer.
It was understandably agitated at being caught and I feared it might hop
away as soon as I put it down. But, no! it stayed put; a few minutes later
I glanced over and there it was, sort of flopped down on the pebbles,
looking quite relaxed. It stayed there for a long while; when next I
checked it was sitting in the shade of the teepee. I hope it sticks
around.
Discovered a frog in the veg bed I was getting ready to plant. Immediately
got a clay saucer, filled it with pebbles and water and placed it partway
into a bean teepee (for shade and safety). Caught frog and put in saucer.
It was understandably agitated at being caught and I feared it might hop
away as soon as I put it down. But, no! it stayed put; a few minutes later
I glanced over and there it was, sort of flopped down on the pebbles,
looking quite relaxed. It stayed there for a long while; when next I
checked it was sitting in the shade of the teepee. I hope it sticks
around.
Pat
I think that is how they drink, absorbing it through their skin. I read
this many years ago, but it was in a book of fiction. We have a
resident toad outside. I have some plants in pots out there, still, and
he gets into one of them and burrows his butt down until there isn't
much above the soil except his eyes. I water him occasionally and he
stays there. and looks up at me when I talk to him. the dog and cat
leave him alone, probably thinks he is a member of the family. ... well
he might as well be.
Yours might be a toad, rather than a frog. I always thought they lived
in the water. (frogs)
susan
Oh, well, I never did learn the difference. Whatever it is, I hope it
stays. And I have to keep an eye on Hyacinth, garden hunter that she is.
Pat
Susan wrote:
Kimm, would that be why a terrapin visited us last week? Was he looking
for water? Rats, I thought I was helping him by moving him away from our
dog and back out to the woods but the forest is burnt dry.
Feeling guilty.
Laura
> <>`` ><>`` ><>`` ><>`` ><>`` ><>`` ><>``
Laura's Homeschooling, Garden, and Genealogy Site
is found here: http://home.att.net/~ekyorigins
``<>< ``<>< ``<>< ``<>< ``<>< ``<>< ``<><
Susan wrote;
I think that is how they drink, absorbing it through their skin. I read
this many years ago, but it was in a book of fiction.
This is how all reptiles and amphibians get the moisture they need. Pat may
have a pond nearby that the frog could have come from, but I will agree that
if there is no really good, permanent water source nearby what she has is
most likely a toad.
Kimm
We have a little play pool sitting next to the larger kiddie pool of
Jills. The little pool has tadpoles in it. Since we are getting nearly no
rain 4/100ths this week), I fill buckets up and let them stand a couple of
days and then replenish the water. The tadpoles are doing great and we have
a whole lot of toads in the denser parts of the garden (mostly under the
hydrangeas actually... smart toads.)
Laura
> <>`` ><>`` ><>`` ><>`` ><>`` ><>`` ><>``
Laura's Homeschooling, Garden, and Genealogy Site
is found here: http://home.att.net/~ekyorigins
``<>< ``<>< ``<>< ``<>< ``<>< ``<>< ``<><
Hyacinth will not like toads or frogs if she just tastes it. Silk won't
bother with them either. He brought one up from the pond once still
alive, but didn't mess with it like he does other critters.
susan
oh, thanks Kimm. It is nice to have that verified
I have "toad ponds" in my garden and sometimes see them in there, but
mostly in the soil
susan
No, Kimm, no pond nearby. So I guess it's a toad, then. Fine with me.
Whether toad or frog, it's a welcome life in the veg garden.
Pat
Pat said;
No, Kimm, no pond nearby. So I guess it's a toad, then. Fine with me.
Whether toad or frog, it's a welcome life in the veg garden.
Toads, generally are a darker green, brown, or almost black in color and can
live in dryer, like my garden, places than can frogs which tend to be
lighter green and with smoother skin than the toads. Be sure there is some
shelter from the sun and even a saucer sunk into the soil with water in it
so the toad can soak up some moisture periodically.
Kimm
Laura wondered:
Kimm, would that be why a terrapin visited us last week? Was he looking
for water? Rats, I thought I was helping him by moving him away from our
dog and back out to the woods but the forest is burnt dry.
Most likely.
Kimm
Kimm wrote:
It's a toad, then.
> Be sure there is some shelter from the
> sun and even a saucer sunk into the soil with water in it so
> the toad can soak up some moisture periodically.
That's what I did, as I said in my original post. Clay saucer, with
pebbles, sunk in the soil, half in/half out of the bean teepee for shade =
and
protection from meandering garden cat.
Pat
All this talk about frogs and toads in the garden is making me jealous. When I first moved here 5 years ago, I installed a tiny little pond in the front yard, only 400 liters of so, small enough for the landlord to not get upset about the hole I dug. Its one of those pre-molded heavy plastic tubs with that has depth gradations. Its planted and doing well, even the water lilies are blooming. But not a frog, toad, salamander or newt is to be seen. Just lots of water skaters and dragonflies.
Susanne in hot and humid Germany
sapress123@aol.com
My resident toad is a real pretty tan/golden spotted on beige.
susan
you probably don't need the pebbles for the toad, but I have insect
baths like that.
susan
Susan wrote:
> you probably don't need the pebbles for the toad, but I have insect
> baths like that.
I wasn't certain how much the toad would like to "drop" into the saucer
(it's a clay saucer that goes under a flower pot, about 1" deep...?), but I
figured with the pebbles it could double for an insect bath, as you say.
Pat
Toads also have noticeably smaller back legs, since they crawl, do not hop,
and certainly cannot make long leaps like frogs do.
Incidentally, although most frogs live in or near water of necessity, the NZ
native frogs (all of them small and secretive) are unusual in that they do
NOT live in water, they live in damp bush. They lay their eggs in water, but
do not need free water themselves.
Tony
Tony, I had heard that they were dying because they are sensitive to toxins! Sue
Tony and Moira
If there are cats in your neighborhood, that accounts for most of those
little creatures disappearing, but in any case, it seems that the Amphibia
generally have reached the end of their evolutionary lifespan. They are
fading out and disappearing all over the world.
Tony
In a message dated 7/12/06 6:07:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
tomory@XTRA.CO.NZ writes:
<< If there are cats in your neighborhood, that accounts for most of those
little creatures disappearing, >>
Not true. After 27 years of having cats here, I have never seen a cat kill,
let alone eat, a frog, toad, or other amphibian. The substance that the
amphibian exhudes from it skin makes them unpalatable to the cats.
Mary Ann
delsp=yes;
format=flowed
I heard it was a fungus problem killing the frogs.
Nancy
I am mowing gras with a scythe at the moment and encountered a dozen frogs
today. I am glad to say I did not damage a single one even while using a
very sharp blade. All looked very well fed and plump.
We have no toads here.
john
> Toads also have noticeably smaller back legs, since they crawl, do not
hop,
> and certainly cannot make long leaps like frogs do.
> Incidentally, although most frogs live in or near water of necessity, the
NZ
> native frogs (all of them small and secretive) are unusual in that they do
> NOT live in water, they live in damp bush. They lay their eggs in water,
but
some
> shelter from the sun and even a saucer sunk into the soil with water in
it
Thanks to Roundup from Monsatan. And that does not only do horrible things
to frogs it methylates human DNA for generation upon generation into all
eternity.
We will soon enough be extinct as well and we deserve it much more than the
frogs. Frogs are just the most sensitive to environmental destruction and
water pollution. They are THE indicator bar none in the environment. See
them disappearing and realise that this means are space ship is leaking and
our planet is almost done. IT IS NO REASON FOR COMPLACENCY.
john
By the time the predator discovers how awful they taste, the toad is
dead or dying. After my beagle learned to catch and kill mice
(friends' part airedale taught her), she caught and killed some
toads. She dropped them pretty quickly, terrible expression on her
face, as her tongue flicked back and forth to get rid of the taste.
Margaret L, seeing that this post has just earned three red hot chili
peppers . Sigh. Just one of the hazards of censorship
There are multiple reasons that frogs and toads, as well as many other =
amphibians, are dying off, some related to various diseases but most of =
these deaths related to overuse of pesticides by the general public. =
Mutations occur as well, shade of "Silent Spring" which I am finding few =
people, even those of my generation, know about.
Kimm
we still have quite a few around here. a pond helps and a creek, but we
have lots of peepers, (spring tree frogs) toads, and bull frogs, which
supposedly eat tadpoles of other amphibians. and.... we have a cat. but
they are endangered
susan
and dogs, we had a dog foaming at the mouth once after putting a frog
or toad in it, didn't hurt either one, but he never bothered them
again,
susan
format=flowed
I have heard that, too, they are studying frogs and toads to see what
is happening.
susan
> Tony, I=A0had heard that=A0they were dying because they are sensitive =
to
> toxins!=A0 Sue
> Tony and Moira
> If there are cats in your neighborhood, that accounts for most of =
those
> little creatures disappearing, but in any case, it seems that the
> Amphibia
> generally have reached the end of their evolutionary lifespan. They =
are
format=flowed
but fungus caused, or increased by toxins in our environment
susan
I had a dog who once caught a toad, and his whole mouth fizzed up
with foam. I still remember my first husband wiping the foam from
his mouth, and speaking for the dog, "damn toad just pissed in my
mouth!"
Nancy
funny!
susan
If there are cats in your neighborhood, that accounts for most of those
little creatures disappearing, but in any case, it seems that the Amphibia
generally have reached the end of their evolutionary lifespan. They are
fading out and disappearing all over the world.
Tony
You are probably correct. There were never any amphibia in our garden when
we came here (although it was semi-wild then) as they are rare in NZ
anywhere. However, we had /lots/ of little skinks at first - until the
neighbourhood started to get built up and cats were introduced. Sadly, after
that, skinks soon were all gone. And we /did/ occasionally see cats killing
skinks (although we did not have a cat ourselves).
Tony
Nobody really seems to be sure. Fungus is one of their problems, but may
only be a symptom of their general decline. Another possibility is that they
are susceptible to the steady increase of UV radiation reaching ground level
as the ozone layer deteriorates.
Tony
It is wonderful that they at least have your chemical free area to live in! Sue ;-)
John D'hondt
What I see here in Ireland is that farmers that spray roundup have no frogs while land that is not so treated usually has. In spring when frogs migrate to their mating places loads of frogs can be seen on the roads on wet nights. Many of them get killed by cars that way. But roads that border sprayed fields have zero frogs even if the spraying took place more than a year before.
I encountered at least 35 different frogs today while working. And that makes me so happy.
john
That is what the P.R. scouts of the chemical industry have concocted. =
What is really happening is that we are in the middle of a world-wide =
man made extinction. I think I read there are only 6 male elephants left =
in Sri Lanka. And these are useful working animals! Tigers and lions are =
going out every where and half of all species of birds are well on the =
road to become extinct. Butterflies and many other insects are on the =
way out just as sloths and ant eaters.
Amphibia though are a special case because they have a wet skin and take =
up chemicals that pollute water they spend most of their time in. That =
frogs die everywhere means that there is hardly any unpolluted water =
left on the planet. Even water that looks clean or water that comes up =
from wells or taps can have hundreds of different chemicals in it.
What I see here in Ireland is that farmers that spray roundup have no =
frogs while land that is not so treated usually has. In spring when =
frogs migrate to their mating places loads of frogs can be seen on the =
roads on wet nights. Many of them get killed by cars that way. But roads =
that border sprayed fields have zero frogs even if the spraying took =
place more than a year before.
I encountered at least 35 different frogs today while working. And that =
makes me so happy.
john
I heard it was a fungus problem killing the frogs.
Nancy
On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:18 PM, Sue Jennings wrote:
Tony, I had heard that they were dying because they are sensitive to =
toxins! Sue
Tony and Moira
If there are cats in your neighborhood, that accounts for most of =
those
little creatures disappearing, but in any case, it seems that the =
Amphibia
generally have reached the end of their evolutionary lifespan. They =
are
fading out and disappearing all over the world.
Tony
Eons ago, when I was a child, I learned it was safe to drink out of
any fast-moving mountain stream. One never heard the word
"giardia." Now we don't dare drink out of any mountain streams lest
we get giardia, Mother Nature's solution for lazy bowels. At least I
have the memory of lying on my stomach drinking out of a stream that
was about 25 cm. wide, cutting through low-growing grass and
wildflowers above timberline. Congratulations on your frogs,
John. Wonderful! Margaret L
And when hiking we used to carry what we called a Sierra Cup which was a shallow metal cup with a handle that would hook on any strap and be accessible to just scoup water out of any stream we were crossing. It was easy and very refreshing, as we were in clean unpolluted country in those days. Good memories! Sue
Margaret Lauterbach
Eons ago, when I was a child, I learned it was safe to drink out of
any fast-moving mountain stream. One never heard the word
"giardia." Now we don't dare drink out of any mountain streams lest
we get giardia, Mother Nature's solution for lazy bowels. At least I
have the memory of lying on my stomach drinking out of a stream that
was about 25 cm. wide, cutting through low-growing grass and
wildflowers above timberline. Congratulations on your frogs,
John. Wonderful! Margaret L
You all WHAT is it going to take to get our country under control?????
There has to be something we should be doing to get folks to listen. We
need to be smart enough to figure out what it is.
> <>`` ><>`` ><>`` ><>`` ><>`` ><>`` ><>``
Laura's Homeschooling, Garden, and Genealogy Site
is found here: http://home.att.net/~ekyorigins
``<>< ``<>< ``<>< ``<>< ``<>< ``<>< ``<><
we have litter laws here, one can be fined boucoup for throwing litter out of their cars. Now, other areas is something else.Amy of Marvelous GardensZone 10 or Sunset zone 23http://home.earthlink.net/~marvelousgardens/--- On Sat 07/15, John D'hondt < dhondt@EIRCOM.NET > wrote:
From: John D'hondt [mailto: dhondt@EIRCOM.NET]To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDUDate: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 22:32:35 +0100Subject: Re: Frog in the garden
We are still able to drink from many local streams but it can not last because most people here live like stone age vandals. Most drop litter where it is produced. With car windows open sweet wrappers and containers and bags of any shape and description will be thrown out while driving as a matter of course. Also half empty containers of medicines. One neighbour of ours is a motor car mechanic of sorts. He had all these vehicle corpses piling up on his property every where. So in the end he had a mechanic monster dig a big hole in a boggy area and they dumped perhaps 40 vehicles in it of course with batteries and full oil sumps intact. They crushed it a bit and put a skin of earth over it. And it grows nice "bog cotton" today. Am I glad I am higher up.john
And when hiking we used to carry what we called a Sierra Cup which was a shallow metal cup with a handle that would hook on any strap and be accessible to just scoup water out of any stream we were crossing. It was easy and very refreshing, as we were in clean unpolluted country in those days. Good memories! SueMargaret Lauterbach wrote:Eons ago, when I was a child, I learned it was safe to drink out of any fast-moving mountain stream. One never heard the word "giardia." Now we don't dare drink out of any mountain streams lest we get giardia, Mother Nature's solution for lazy bowels. At least I have the memory of lying on my stomach drinking out of a stream that was about 25 cm. wide, cutting through low-growing grass and wildflowers above timberline. Congratulations on your frogs, John. Wonderful! Margaret L
Many years ago, while I was in the Army, in Africa, I did catch giardia ( we
called it "amoebic dysentery" in those days, but I understand that it is the
same thing). For me it resulted in a lot of discomfort and three weeks in
hospital, where they used some thoroughly nasty drug (aminophyline) to clear
the bugs out of my gut!
I do not recommend catching this disease!
Tony
We are still able to drink from many local streams but it can not last =
because most people here live like stone age vandals. Most drop litter =
where it is produced. With car windows open sweet wrappers and =
containers and bags of any shape and description will be thrown out =
while driving as a matter of course. Also half empty containers of =
medicines. One neighbour of ours is a motor car mechanic of sorts. He =
had all these vehicle corpses piling up on his property every where. So =
in the end he had a mechanic monster dig a big hole in a boggy area and =
they dumped perhaps 40 vehicles in it of course with batteries and full =
oil sumps intact. They crushed it a bit and put a skin of earth over it. =
And it grows nice "bog cotton" today. Am I glad I am higher up.
john
And when hiking we used to carry what we called a Sierra Cup which was =
a shallow metal cup with a handle that would hook on any strap and be =
accessible to just scoup water out of any stream we were crossing. It =
was easy and very refreshing, as we were in clean unpolluted country in =
those days. Good memories! Sue
Margaret Lauterbach
Eons ago, when I was a child, I learned it was safe to drink out of
any fast-moving mountain stream. One never heard the word
"giardia." Now we don't dare drink out of any mountain streams lest
we get giardia, Mother Nature's solution for lazy bowels. At least I
have the memory of lying on my stomach drinking out of a stream that
was about 25 cm. wide, cutting through low-growing grass and
wildflowers above timberline. Congratulations on your frogs,
John. Wonderful! Margaret L
format=flowed
good grief, they have been to the USA
susan
format=flowed
yeah, but you have to catch them. Our mountain is a big litter box for
the whole county.
susan
Or maybe they've been to NZ!
Tony
good grief, they have been to the USA
susan
Those were the days.
Pat
Hello John,
I have vivid memories of seeing hundreds of little green tree frogs fly
through the air while flail mowing 8-10' tall pearl millet at the organic
farm that I managed in Goldsboro, NC.
Agitated by the tractor, the frogs leaped from where they had been perched
high on the stalks of millet. Many landed on the tractor hood and some even
landed on me. Little green frogs perched all over the green John Deere
tractor was an amazing sight.
I am sure that some of the frogs perished but many were still alive and
hopping around after I finished mowing the field.
Joel
Joel Gruver
Dept of Soil Science
NC State University
jgruv@hotmail.com
Extrapolating the density of the frogs per meter square to the whole field I
would guestimate that there are about 300 to 350 frogs in the grass of this
field. Other years we have the grass cut by a contractor with a big machine
that really scalps the soil and pulps frogs to an onrecognisable mush. That
is what happens in all fields of Ireland nay the world, where ever hay or
silage is made.
The difference with killing a frog with a hand tool is that nobody even
notices it happening this way. And if they knew they would not care since
really it can not be avoided.
john
knife
Our frogs are a bit more substantial Joel. They are too heavy to perch on
top of the stalks of anything and stay at the bottom. When frightened they
try to burry which is the only thing they can do really when the gras is as
thick as mine. A modern mowing machine will kill every one of them except if
they move from a 12 foot lane of to be mown gras into the neighboring 12
foot band that has just been done. A feat for a frog for they can not move
fast in that close vegetation. Those that do make it are picked up by the
baler then the next day and I find them back in the middle of silage bales
in a mummified state months later.
john
even
field
> I
> would guestimate that there are about 300 to 350 frogs in the grass of
this
> field. Other years we have the grass cut by a contractor with a big
machine
> that really scalps the soil and pulps frogs to an onrecognisable mush.
That
of
Tony wrote:
> it seems that
> the Amphibia generally have reached the end of their evolutionary
> lifespan. They are fading out and disappearing all over the world.
But don't they occupy a niche in the environment such that their absence
would create an imbalance? Is Nature supplying something else to eat the
baddies that they eat and to perform the other services they do to maintain
ecological balance?
I can understand their disappearance being the result of man-made
environmental insults, but I can't grasp that Nature would be phasing them
out.....???
Pat
Hello John,
The frogs that I observed when mowing pearl millet were green tree frogs...
here is a brief description from the web and a link to a photo.
"The green tree frog is 1 3/4 to 2 1/2 inches long and has a very slender
form. Its legs are 1 1/2 times the length of its head and body, which
enables it to leap distances of 8 to 10 feet. Like all members of the tree
frog family, the green tree frog has rounded adhesive discs on its unwebbed
toes (these enable the frogs to climb) and horizontal pupils in its eyes."
http://www.naturalsciences.org/funstuff/notebook/herps/green_tree_frog.html
We also had many toads at the farm... which seemed to stay buried
underground during hot sunny weather.
Joel
Joel Gruver
Dept of Soil Science
NC State University
jgruv@hotmail.com
And in the meantime the insects rule the world!!! Sue
Tony and Moira
Further to what I already said.... Yes, given time, Nature WILL supply a new
species/Genus to "fill the niche", but Nature might well need a million
years or so to fill the gap! (Nature is NOT in a hurry.)
Tony
Further to what I already said.... Yes, given time, Nature WILL supply a new
species/Genus to "fill the niche", but Nature might well need a million
years or so to fill the gap! (Nature is NOT in a hurry.)
Tony
It reminds me of an article in a newspaper some years ago where it was
claimed that oil tankers breaking up at sea and causing dramatic oil spills
were actually very good for the environment for only this caused afflicted
species of bird and fish and other wild life to be kept with there beaks to
the grind stone of evolution. Without disasters they would have it way to
easy and get soft and become extinct!
That turned out to be P.R. bull from an Exxon employee. That talk about the
frogs was spawned by Monsatan because they are responsible for killing the
lion share of them.
john
maintain
Of the top of my head I think your tree frogs belong to the genus Hylobates
while our frog belongs officially to the species Rana temporaria the
European green frog. I say officially because the frog in Ireland is in some
aspects very different from the ones I knew on the continent. Belgian frogs
can keep one awake in summer with the noise they make while the Irish frogs
is a very timid "kwakker" and not audible from more than a few yards. Also,
I have never read anywhere that the Irish frog can on occasion produce
extremely well modulated sounds that resemble almost human language if I did
not know this were impossible. I have heard on a few occasions frogs
screaming when one of my ducks would make efforts to swallow them. This
screaming resembles the sound one would expect a small mammal like a rat to
make when it was in pain and trapped and not an amphibian without vocal
cords.
Our frogs vary in colour from green to brown and in size from filling a soup
spoon to the palm of my hand with legs slightly longer than the body. They
seldom jump more than a foot or a foot and a half at a time but that may be
due to either their love of dense vegetation or their plump nature.
john
Pity you could not send me a breeding nucleus of these tree frogs for my
birthday:(
> Hello John,
> The frogs that I observed when mowing pearl millet were green tree
frogs...
unwebbed
> toes (these enable the frogs to climb) and horizontal pupils in its eyes."
http://www.naturalsciences.org/funstuff/notebook/herps/green_tree_frog.html
they
> try to burry which is the only thing they can do really when the gras is
as
> thick as mine. A modern mowing machine will kill every one of them except
> if
> they move from a 12 foot lane of to be mown gras into the neighboring 12
> foot band that has just been done. A feat for a frog for they can not
move
> fast in that close vegetation. Those that do make it are picked up by the
> baler then the next day and I find them back in the middle of silage
bales
fly
and
of
> this
> field. Other years we have the grass cut by a contractor with a big
> machine
> that really scalps the soil and pulps frogs to an onrecognisable
mush.
> That
> is what happens in all fields of Ireland nay the world, where ever
hay
> or
> silage is made.
> The difference with killing a frog with a hand tool is that nobody
even
In pre-human New Zealand, in the almost total absence of mammals (there were
three species of bats in the islands) all ecological niches were occupied by
birds and insects.
Thus, many bird species abandoned flying (which is energy-intensive),
adapting totally to either tree-climbing, or to entirely ground-dwelling;
habitats while some species of insect grew very large and took up the niches
normally occupied by mammals such as rats and mice. The largest birds were
the moa, of which there were around a dozen species, ranging from turkey
size up to larger-than-ostrich size. Giant moa were the heaviest (but
probably not quite the tallest) birds ever to live on earth. Moa took up the
niches normally occupied by grazers and browsers.
The largest of all the insects here became the wetas (of which there are
ground-dwelling, tree-dwelling, and cave-dwelling species). While most wetas
are cockroach-sized or even smaller (small ground-dwelling ones are very
common in our own garden) several giant species of weta grew to the size of
large, fat mice, and each weighed about the same as three or four mice!
Giant wetas are still around, but are not very common. Many of them have
doubtless been out-competed for resources by the incoming rats and mice
brought by humans. (Polynesian incomers about 1000 years gao brought the
Polynesian rat with them, while European ships brought both the black and
the brown rats to become established here. Wetas are a form of cricket and
they have the strong hind legs of that family, and most of them can jump
quite well too.
Tony
Susan, you are right, it probably is a toad. And the dog and cat will =
leave him alone -- especially if they have ever made the mistake of =
grabbing one in their mouth. They excrete a nasty tasting substance when =
grabbed like that and a dog will drink water for a long time trying to =
get the taste out of its mouth.
Sallie - Zone 6 - SW Ohio
and looks up at me when I talk to him. the dog and cat
leave him alone, probably thinks he is a member of the family. ... =
well
he might as well be.
Yours might be a toad, rather than a frog. I always thought they lived =
in the water. (frogs)
