Nature has most certainly phased out whole Orders of life over the millions
of years that evolution has been happening!
Often, the major "extinction events" have happened as a result of some
natural catatrophe - major volcanic eruption series, say, or meteor strike.
The extinction event going on right at this moment seems to be "natural"
only in a sense, since it appears to be very largely man-generated.
However, it also seems quite possible that the Amphibia have exhausted their
evolutionary potential and the "strength" of their gene-lines and might have
been disappearing into extinction even without our "help". Other Genera
appear to have done this in the past too, but I can't quote specific
examples. One factor that has been suggested as impacting this group
(Amphibia) badly is increased solar (esp UV) radiation - something we
certainly have not made any difference to by our efforts!
Tony
> However, it also seems quite possible that the Amphibia have exhausted
their
> evolutionary potential and the "strength" of their gene-lines and might
have
I would try and get sponsoring from some well known big company for this
Tony. We are not talking "Genera" we are talking about the "Classis"
Amphibia.
And here is a bold statement : I 'll bet you anything you like that our
species may become extinct before the Amphibia even or will most definitely
not last long after for I do not think that a cancer has ever survived the
body it killed. Amphibia are part of nature like a liver is part of a body,
their disappearance is just a symptom of something bigger.
john
Hi John,
You may well be right. I would not be at all surprised if we cause our own
extinction - despite what an American friend of mine thinks. He is an
optimist - he is sure that whatever disasters crop up humans will think of a
"way round" the problem.
Personally, I think that it is far more likely that our present
civilisation is "on its last legs" and will collapse from its own
stupidities before very long - as has happened to EVERY past civilisation
that we know of.
Civilisations have their own characteristic "growth-mature-decline-die"
cycle, just like individual creatures and species.
To take just one example, the Roman civilisation was hugely succesful and
powerful - they were rulers of the whole known world of their day, and they
thought it would "last forever", but they declined from their own failures
and eventually were finished off by waves of "barbarians" still in their
"growth" stage.
I suspect that this is what will happen to us. Whether our "barbarians" will
be fundamentalist Moslems, or somebody - or something - else, I have no
idea - but I am glad I personally am unlikely to see it. However, I feel
concern for my children and grandchildren who may well do so.
Tony
Not all of them. Maybe they can survive. Sue
John D'hondt
There just are no hidden tribes any more and the aboriginees
have
forgotten most of what they once knew to keep themselves alive.
> Civilisations have their own characteristic "growth-mature-decline-die"
> cycle, just like individual creatures and species.
> To take just one example, the Roman civilisation was hugely succesful and
> powerful - they were rulers of the whole known world of their day, and
they
> thought it would "last forever", but they declined from their own failures
> and eventually were finished off by waves of "barbarians" still in their
> "growth" stage.
> I suspect that this is what will happen to us. Whether our "barbarians"
will
What is fundamentally different this time is that this civilisation is
global, all previous ones were local even the Roman Empire. So when rome
collapsed the population of the Rome dominated region halved almost
overnight and it took a thousand years to recover.
This time the prognosis is that almost no one in the world will escape
unscated. There just are no hidden tribes any more and the aboriginees have
forgotten most of what they once knew to keep themselves alive.
I think you may be overly optimistic that you are unlikely to see the end.
Some of us "doom-thinkers" have even moved past "peak oil" and are now
talking about a critical point in the price of oil products. Once we reach
the tipping point it is thought that most human activity will come to a
standstill. It could be tomorrow.
john
I spoke about those aborigines the way I did because I saw TV for an =
hour. I think it was discovery channel and some white professor went =
into some rainforest and had to teach the people there how to make fire =
with a fire drill. The scarcely clad locals used the same gas filled =
cigarette lighters that most people use everywhere.
We have a group here in West Cork called growing awareness. Most members =
are very well meaning. They know that a crisis is on the way and they =
are well versed in all kinds of branches of alternative ways of making =
and doing things. Most are very optimistic for the future for when it =
gets bad they will teach "the others" how to make soap, how to spin wool =
and how to graft fruit trees.
What often strikes me when I talk to them is that none of them seem to =
realise that growing food or making clothes (for instance) takes a good =
bit of planning. When you get desperately hungry it is a bit late to =
start planting crops and graft trees that will not produce anything for =
years to come.
All that said, if any species will be able to survive I'm fairly sure it =
will be mankind for that what brought us on top of the pile is still =
valid : in the first place our capacity to produce and use long distance =
weapons. I am not quite sure that is a bright prospect though.
john
--- Original Message -----
Not all of them. Maybe they can survive. Sue
John D'hondt
There just are no hidden tribes any more and the aboriginees
have
forgotten most of what they once knew to keep themselves alive.
I don't think that is optimism, it is head in the sand outlook
susan
No, actually he is not a Republican, and is most unenthiusiastic about your
current Pres! However, he is a good deal more conservative than the majority
of people on this list!
Tony
You're absolutely right! There were plenty of Romans who bewailed the
falling standards that they saw all around them, as is well documented from
their own writings, and I have no doubt that this happened in other ancient
civilisations too, but these individuals were "swimming against the tide"
and the tide was definitely ebbing.
Tony
I've heard that what engineers use for birth control is their
personalities. Margaret L
In a message dated 7/27/06 9:27:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
tomory@XTRA.CO.NZ writes:
<< It's not entirely that - my friend was an engineer (now retired), and he
has
the usual engineer's outlook that "if there is a problem, there will be an
engineer who will find a solution to it". >>
Yesss!
Mary Ann
BSEE
In a message dated 7/28/06 6:47:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
melauter@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
<< I've heard that what engineers use for birth control is their
personalities. Margaret L
Luckily, it worked for me ;-)
Mary Ann
It's not entirely that - my friend was an engineer (now retired), and he has
the usual engineer's outlook that "if there is a problem, there will be an
engineer who will find a solution to it".
Tony
H'mmm. My engineer friend has three lovely daughters. Any connection do you
think?
Tony B-)
