Oh, kewl! Please keep us informed Pauline, I'm very interested in getting the
scoop!
alan
Pauline wrote:
--
Motorola Semiconductor Products Sector
R. Alan Zelhart
CAD Software Asset Management
2100 East Elliot Road; Mail Drop EL714
Tempe, Arizona 85284
Sunset Zone: 13 - Metro Phoenix
Work Phone: (480) 413-3470
Home Phone: (480) 699-3977
Cell Phone: (602) 692-4037
Pager: (888) 996-9501
Fax: (480) 413-5723
"You can't create a reputation you haven't earned"
--Robert W. Galvin
While in Ireland I kept seeing this great ivy growing wild everywhere. It
also was in every flower arrangement on dining tables. I got a really good
picture of it and it is at:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=54751&a??58141
If anyone knows where I might be able to get some , I would appreciate it.
The woman who runs our local English Garden shop said all mature ivies
create these little sputnick type pods, but I don't recall seeing any. The
closest thing I have seen to this is Fatsia Japonica which right now has
similar pods, but not as delicate as those produced by this ivy. This shot
was taken at the cemetary where Keats is buried. I had a cutting, but did
not have enough nerve to try to carry it back--I had visions of that
agricultural beagle sniffing it out when we cleared customs in Atlanta, and
seeing my husband die of embarrassment at his criminal wife's plant
obsessions.
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
I have lots of ivy growing, but not hedera helix----does anyone in the US
have it??? I am going to do a search on the net to see if I can find it.
Thanks Arnhild, I was sure you would know it and think it common, but I
haven't seen it here.
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
USA?
> Arnhild
> At 02:46 PM 9.11.00 -0500, Pauline wrote:
> While in Ireland I kept seeing this great ivy growing wild everywhere.
It
> also was in every flower arrangement on dining tables. I got a really
good
OK, looks like it is a mature form of English ivy, although the type in the
photograph does not have lobed leaves. Apparently, those sputnick things
are the flower on mature ivy--now my question is how long does it take for
ivy to mature to this stage?
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
USA?
> Arnhild
> At 02:46 PM 9.11.00 -0500, Pauline wrote:
> While in Ireland I kept seeing this great ivy growing wild everywhere.
It
> also was in every flower arrangement on dining tables. I got a really
good
Pauline,
Somewhere just this week, but I don't remember where, I read that
English ivy, in the mature form, can develop leaves that are heart
shaped and not the lobular form. And develop those berry-like thingys.
Time frames were not mentioned. I was wondering 'cause I've got some
that is at least 10 years old with no berries or heart shaped leaves.
Must take a very long time to get to this level of maturity?
Barbara A. in Ole Virginny
Pauline wrote:
I just found a great ivy site and sent off an email with my picture to ask
these ivy affectionados how long it takes to "mature." I hope it isn't
hundreds of years (I am sure the vines I saw everywhere might have been
pretty old).
I sent email to:
HederaHelix@eastcheam.co.uk
the site is: http://www.eastcheam.co.uk/#rona but it takes a long time to
download because of all the pictures.
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
the
> photograph does not have lobed leaves. Apparently, those sputnick
things
> are the flower on mature ivy--now my question is how long does it take
for
the
> mature stadium - this takes years to mature, and then the leavees
change
> form, but it start to give these flowers. I use them in decorations
too :)
> - it grow wild also here in Hardanger. Sure you can get Hedera helix
in
> USA?
> Arnhild
> At 02:46 PM 9.11.00 -0500, Pauline wrote:
> While in Ireland I kept seeing this great ivy growing wild
everywhere.
> It
> also was in every flower arrangement on dining tables. I got a
really
> I just found a great ivy site and sent off an email with my picture to ask
> these ivy affectionados how long it takes to "mature." I hope it isn't
> hundreds of years (I am sure the vines I saw everywhere might have been
> pretty old).
I think you'll discover that hederas turn mature when they reach the top of
a reasonably tall support and mature growth begins with horizontal growth at
that point.
Barb in Southern Indiana Zone 5/6 dorsett@blueriver.net
A root is a flower that disdains fame.
Barb, what does this mean when the ivy is "only" on the ground? I have
noticed that the ivy I planted under my magnolia last summer has started to
put out lateral shoots.
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
ask
> these ivy affectionados how long it takes to "mature." I hope it isn't
> hundreds of years (I am sure the vines I saw everywhere might have been
> pretty old).
> I think you'll discover that hederas turn mature when they reach the top
of
> a reasonably tall support and mature growth begins with horizontal growth
at
I think that means that it will tend to stay juvenile. As a bonus, juvenile
forms root easier than mature forms tend to do.
If you buy mature ivy, it tends to grow into a bush form...and they
sometimes revert to juvenile form. Plants seem to have minds of their own.
There is an American Ivy Society
http://www.ivy.org/index.html
A list of all the various hedera cultivars:
http://members.tripod.com/~Hatch_L/hede1616.html
Microscopic ivy images:
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Biology/Herbarium/hedera/
Barb in Southern Indiana Zone 5/6 dorsett@blueriver.net
A root is a flower that disdains fame.
Pauline .. this looks like and probably is just normal Hedera helix - the
mature stadium - this takes years to mature, and then the leavees change
form, but it start to give these flowers. I use them in decorations too :)
- it grow wild also here in Hardanger. Sure you can get Hedera helix in USA?
Arnhild
I think the nursery owner was right about this being the flower of any of
the various "English" Ivys. Only mature plants that haven't been cut back
much or shaped will show these flowers so maybe if you look closely at some
older, long established ivy plants around you can see how similar they are to
the Irish ones you admire.
Flora in CA
In a message dated 11/9/2000 11:48:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,
pauline@EC.RR.COM writes:
<< While in Ireland I kept seeing this great ivy growing wild everywhere.
Pauline .. it normally takes yeeeeeeeeears to start blooming ... 20-30
...maybe more I think - we have one at our barn, must be 20, nor bloom yet!
Arnhild
I know how they feel. Margaret L
That's what I was afraid of---we forget in this country how new our
plantings really are, so when we see "common" plants in Europe, they look
different. Let's see, I am going to be 58 next month, I planted my ivy last
year----I might see it blooming if I live long enough! Has anyone on this
list seen ivy blooming in the US??
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
I'm not thinking clearly this morning, so I'll ask my stupid question. If
you took a cutting from a mature ivy, would it yield a mature ivy plant or
revert to juvenility? Margaret L
400 years old. Margaret L
I've seen the mature ivies for sale, Pauline. You can get one-I'm sure!
BTW, we are getting ready to celebrate the 400th anniversary of the founding
of Jamestown (1607) so some of us can see plantings here at home that are
almost 400 years old....
Debbie in Williamsburg, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: Gardens & Gardening [mailto:GARDENS@lsv.uky.edu] On Behalf Of
Pauline
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 9:04 AM
To: GARDENS@lsv.uky.edu
Subject: Re: Does this ivy grow in the US?
That's what I was afraid of---we forget in this country how new our
plantings really are, so when we see "common" plants in Europe, they look
different. Let's see, I am going to be 58 next month, I planted my ivy last
year----I might see it blooming if I live long enough! Has anyone on this
list seen ivy blooming in the US??
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
You can find them, Pauline. There's a hedge of the mature form in the herb
garden at the US National Arboretum. Or just keep alert when you're out and
around...
"One can often find adult forms of English ivy perched
in large oaks around older, established gardens of the
southeast..."
http://www.arb.ncsu.edu/YearinTrees/List/Hederaadult.html
Sunshine Farm in West Virginia has 'Treetop' for sale:
http://www.sunfarm.com/plantlist/plantlist.htm
Barb in Southern Indiana Zone 5/6 dorsett@blueriver.net
A root is a flower that disdains fame.
They do look like shrubs.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gardens & Gardening [mailto:GARDENS@lsv.uky.edu] On Behalf Of
Arnhild Bleie
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 10:57 AM
To: GARDENS@lsv.uky.edu
Subject: Re: Does this ivy grow in the US?
> I've seen the mature ivies for sale, Pauline. You can get one-I'm sure!
....... that sounds some strange .. or what I mean is the if you plant this
and it starts growing again (climbing) .. the new branches probably would
look juvenile again in leaves ... or it won't grow much, more be a bush.
It might have something with a treatment with a ripening hormon to do here
... I am afraid ... but: I have no idea if! Just guessing. So please don't
take this 'maybe hormon' to be the truth, but it makes sense in my head as
far I know the plant.
:) Arnhild - z8'er in chilly latitude 60 - Hardanger in Norway
*All the flowers of all the of tomorrows are in the seeds of today*
I think it DOES stay mature...we need Bob Stewart or someone to give us an
explanation about this ivy thing...I know I've read about it, but can't
remember the details and no time to research it today.
Debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: Gardens & Gardening [mailto:GARDENS@lsv.uky.edu] On Behalf Of
Margaret Lauterbach
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 11:05 AM
To: GARDENS@lsv.uky.edu
Subject: Re: Does this ivy grow in the US?
I'm not thinking clearly this morning, so I'll ask my stupid question. If
you took a cutting from a mature ivy, would it yield a mature ivy plant or
revert to juvenility? Margaret L
> I'm not thinking clearly this morning, so I'll ask my stupid question. If
> you took a cutting from a mature ivy, would it yield a mature ivy plant or
> revert to juvenility? Margaret L
It yields a mature ivy plant. That plant grows slowly into a bush form.
And mature Hedera helix
"...can be kept growing as a small bush with proper
pruning, however, it may revert to the juvenile
form with age."
(from the Kentucky Nurserymen's Association Newsletter)
http://www.bernheim.org/profiles.htm#hhelix
Barb in Southern Indiana Zone 5/6 dorsett@blueriver.net
A root is a flower that disdains fame.
I am constantly pulling up this ivy out of my front border garden! I =
have allowed it to climb up the Acacia tree, but I pulled it off the =
house and it left gouges in the siding!
Kim Sinclair
Zone 9 (Sunset 19)
Southern California
From: "J. Flora"
Subject: Re: Does this ivy grow in the US?
> I think the nursery owner was right about this being the flower of =
any of
the various "English" Ivys. Only mature plants that haven't been cut =
back
much or shaped will show these flowers so maybe if you look closely at =
some
older, long established ivy plants around you can see how similar they =
are to
the Irish ones you admire.<<
Flora in CA
I hope I can find one, if you know where I might find one, let me know.
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
founding
last
> year----I might see it blooming if I live long enough! Has anyone on
this
yet!
You might run into some of Miz Anne's folks there, her ancestors on her mom's
side came over to help found Jamestown. Mine were waiting on the dock when they
got there.
George
Deborah Green wrote:
I know I have seen them in nurseries here...will get a price next time in
case you haven't found one yet.
Debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: Gardens & Gardening [mailto:GARDENS@lsv.uky.edu] On Behalf Of
Pauline
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 12:43 PM
To: GARDENS@lsv.uky.edu
Subject: Re: Does this ivy grow in the US?
I hope I can find one, if you know where I might find one, let me know.
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
founding
last
> year----I might see it blooming if I live long enough! Has anyone on
this
yet!
Ok, am I missing something here...I'm a little confused. You have juvenile and
mature, Hedera helix 'Treetop'? How long does it take for it to mature, and
start getting the beautiful flowers and berries?
Alan
Pauline wrote:
--
Motorola Semiconductor Products Sector
R. Alan Zelhart
CAD Software Asset Management
2100 East Elliot Road; Mail Drop EL714
Tempe, Arizona 85284
Sunset Zone: 13 - Metro Phoenix
Work Phone: (480) 413-3470
Home Phone: (480) 699-3977
Cell Phone: (602) 692-4037
Pager: (888) 996-9501
Fax: (480) 413-5723
"You can't create a reputation you haven't earned"
--Robert W. Galvin
Amazing, isn't it? Plants are so amazing! I never cease to be awed by their
characteristics and behaviors.
alan
Pauline wrote:
Thanks Debbie, wish I could get a cutting of a "mature" ivy that has
bloomed.
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
Barb, once again, you have found the definitive sources of information.
Thank you. I am going to try to order treetop, the article in the first
reference answers 100% + of my questions. Thanks again.
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
herb
> garden at the US National Arboretum. Or just keep alert when you're out
and
are
look
Apparently, from the article, it would only happen on those growing upright,
"This fascinating change in character is triggered in Hedera by the vine
growing a certain vertical distance from its roots" and according to
Arnhild, she has a plant that is 20 years old and has not yet matured. But
the article by Dr Kim Tripp says: "Once a vine attains the adult form, it
can be propagated and grown so that the propagated plants start out as adult
form plants. Adult forms tend to develop an attractive, shrubby type habit
but they must be given the opportunity to remain upright in order to retain
their adult habit. If planted at ground level with no vertical surface
nearby, and allowed to sprawl downwards, they will quickly revert to the
juvenile form with sharply lobed foliage and no flower or fruit production.
"
So getting a plant from an adult type AND maintaining an upright growth,
should get it to flower, but we still do not know how much time this would
involve.
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
juvenile and
> mature, Hedera helix 'Treetop'? How long does it take for it to mature,
and
out
sure!
> BTW, we are getting ready to celebrate the 400th anniversary of
> the founding
> of Jamestown (1607) so some of us can see plantings here at home
that
Of
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 1:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Does this ivy grow in the US?
> Pauline .. it normally takes yeeeeeeeeears to start blooming ....
20-30
> of Jamestown (1607) so some of us can see plantings here at home that are
> almost 400 years old....Debbie in Williamsburg, VA
> I know how they feel. Margaret L
Who? feels how?
... like wise, admired and respected? ... or ???
:) AB
Arnhild, I don't think they use them here, at least I have never seen any in
flower arrangements, but I have to admit I don't get to see many.
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
> I've seen the mature ivies for sale, Pauline. You can get one-I'm sure!
....... that sounds some strange .. or what I mean is the if you plant this
and it starts growing again (climbing) .. the new branches probably would
look juvenile again in leaves ... or it won't grow much, more be a bush.
It might have something with a treatment with a ripening hormon to do here
... I am afraid ... but: I have no idea if! Just guessing. So please don't
take this 'maybe hormon' to be the truth, but it makes sense in my head as
far I know the plant.
:) Arnhild - z8'er in chilly latitude 60 - Hardanger in Norway
*All the flowers of all the of tomorrows are in the seeds of today*
> I'm not thinking clearly this morning, so I'll ask my stupid question. If
> you took a cutting from a mature ivy, would it yield a mature ivy plant or
> revert to juvenility? Margaret L
..... I think I answered this in a way in my last mail to Debi, I think
they start get juvenile again - any woody plant that are hard pruned in a
mature stage will most often be able to send out new juvenile growth - so
also Hedera helix.
AB
Pauline;
Have you found an online source here in the states for Ivy as good as the
site in England? If you have would you share the URL please?
Carrie from Ohio
Zone 6a
last
> year----I might see it blooming if I live long enough! Has anyone on
this
yet!
> Thanks Debbie, wish I could get a cutting of a "mature" ivy that has
> bloomed.
> Pauline
..... maybe it is possible to look for such a cutting in a shop which sells
flowers and flower arrangements? At least they are used that way here in
Norway .. just an idea?
AB
I looked at that sight Pauline, but saw no way to order from them on the site.
Do you have to email them and place an order?
alan
Pauline wrote:
--
R. Alan Zelhart
Chandler, Arizona
Sunset Zone: 13
http://members.home.net/gizmoaz/~gizmoaz.htm
Take your shoes off, stay awhile, I'll make Strawberry daiquiri's!!
Carrie, Barb Dorsett provided this one which looks like it may produce the
same "bush" mature ivy called treetop:
< Sunshine Farm in West Virginia has 'Treetop' for sale:
http://www.sunfarm.com/plantlist/plantlist.htm >
I haven't ordered it yet.
Pauline
Wilmington, NC
Gardening Zone 8
pauline@ec.rr.com
look
Barry Glick is apparently a wholesaler, Alan. You can email him to find out
if he supplies retailers in your area...or you might be able to buy directly
from him if your order is large enough.
Barb in Southern Indiana Zone 5/6 dorsett@blueriver.net
Time is what keeps things from happening all at once.
Yes, a cutting of mature English ivy will produce a plant of mature
ivy...however....cuttings from the adult form of English ivy (Hedera
helix) are much more difficult to root than the groundcover juvenile
form. That's one of the reasons you don't see the adult form offered
for sale very often. It is a relatively common phenomenon that
cuttings taken from a juvenile form of a plant are much easier to root
than cuttings from the adult form of the same plant. There has been
some research that indicates an application of gibberellin (and plant
growth hormone) to the adult form of English ivy will improve rooting
but often it is accompanied by a reversion to the juvenile form.
Sometimes plants just don't want to cooperate. :-)
----------------------
Bob (still in the juvenile form) Stewart
Southern Maryland (USDA Zone 7)
rs72@umail.umd.edu
