jalleman on mon 24 oct 05

Tony and Moira wrote:

I was told this summer that if new canes are not topped before the time
of year when the old/current canes are bearing, the 'new' canes will put
out mainly vegetative buds, not fruiting one. I think the presenter was
talking about blackberries, but had also talked about pruning raspberries.

Anyone know about this?

I have gotten good crops and I am not sure if I ever got all my new
canes topped before the current years' fruit were present.

My hearing is bad, so maybe I'm more confused than I realize.

Thanks for clearing this up,

Dave

--
Julia/David Alleman
1245 Upland
Harrisonburg, VA 22802

540/433-4008

kathryn marsh on wed 26 oct 05

Maybe this is a climatic thing but here in Ireland the new canes
haven't got big enough to tip when the current canes are bearing. And
I only get round to tipping them every couple of years anyway. They
certainly don't put out mainly vegetative buds. This year one cane
was 12 feet high and bore right to the top - I left it as an
experiment, staking it firmly. Should have weighed the crop off it I
guess but I didn't get around to it.Mostly I tip them to keep them
more manageable. Most of my raspberry pruning gets done between now
and February - don't have time earlier. Some years I've managed to
get round to it immediately after fruiting as I should have done but
it doesn't seem to make any difference.

Pruning and propagating of raspberries and black and red currants is
the designated job for today at the Ecology Centre if the rain stays
off long enough and volunteers have remembered their waterproofs

Otherwise they are going to find themselves on their hands and knees
weeding in polytunnels

kathryn

Sue Jennings on thu 27 oct 05

--0-652738769-1130452851=:21889

Thanks everyone for your advice and tidbits about pruning raspberries/berries. Now I just have to get out there and try it. Sue
Plant Spirit Herbals in No. Calif.

Kathryn Marsh wrote:
Maybe this is a climatic thing but here in Ireland the new canes
haven't got big enough to tip when the current canes are bearing. And
I only get round to tipping them every couple of years anyway. They
certainly don't put out mainly vegetative buds. This year one cane
was 12 feet high and bore right to the top - I left it as an
experiment, staking it firmly. Should have weighed the crop off it I
guess but I didn't get around to it.Mostly I tip them to keep them
more manageable. Most of my raspberry pruning gets done between now
and February - don't have time earlier. Some years I've managed to
get round to it immediately after fruiting as I should have done but
it doesn't seem to make any difference.

--0-652738769-1130452851=:21889

JT Thompson on sat 29 oct 05

> Pruning and propagating of raspberries and black and red currants is
> the designated job for today at the Ecology Centre if the rain stays
> off long enough and volunteers have remembered their waterproofs

Today's weather bears out my mother's theory that God hates the
working classes; she used to say that on any bank holiday weekend the
weather would be deliciously warm and sunny until Friday evening,
when the kids were being piled into car or bus to get away for the
weekend, when the clouds would sweep in, and rain and rain and rain
until Monday evening, when the perfect weather would return!

JT Thompson on sat 29 oct 05

So the way to tell old canes from new is the fact that they have side shoots?

Tony and Moira on sat 29 oct 05

My experience is the same as yours Kathryn. The new canes are not fully
grown until after the year's early crop is picked and whether topped or not
the canes always have fruit at every node.

I usually top mine in late winter as I find the last 4 inches or so is most
often much weaker than the rest of the cane and the fruit picked from it is
correspondingly poor, but they will certainly bear right up to the tips if
left.

I wonder if in fact, as the point was not very clear, if the tipping in the
article was actually referring to blackberries only and not raspberries..

Moira

John D'hondt on sat 29 oct 05

JT we here in West cork have had beastly weather for the last two weeks at
least. Force 8 winds almost constant loosing us several big trees and rain
coming down day and night in buckets.
But Friday was exceptionally good as you said! And the wind and rain did
pick up on Friday evening. Then the wind is dropping just now Saturday 8
o'clock. Feels like a provincial train station with an express train coming
past every hour or so now. Earlier it was more like a capital station with
high speed trains every 30 seconds.
john

kathryn marsh on sat 29 oct 05

Its easier than that. As soon as summer fruiting raspberry canes have
finished fruiting they begin to die back. So you just cut out the
dead ones. The autumn fruiting ones will bear again the following
summer on the same canes, though not as heavily, so they will have
side shoots and be still alive. Some reckon that you should cut these
out because they weaken the plants and prevent the canes for autumn
doing as well as they otherwise would. I've never found this to be
the case. So I just cut out dead ones and any feeble ones and leave
as much as I reckon the plants can take with the amount of nutrients
available to them. If mine were growing beside an old hen run as
yours are I would just cut out dead canes and leave the rest because
there would be so much goodness in there.

kathryn

kathryn marsh on sat 29 oct 05

> Pruning and propagating of raspberries and black and red currants
> is the designated job for today at the Ecology Centre if the rain
> stays off long enough and volunteers have remembered their waterproofs

Well it did stay fine that day and we got quite a lot done. But I'm
awfully glad I hadn't arranged anything for today. Even got half
drowned between the house and the barn getting stuff for dinner from
the freezer. And I don't suppose its any better in the city at this
moment than it is out here in the country where the roads are now
littered with fallen dead wood and the car windscreen is splattered
with driving wet leaves if you have to take son and girlfriend to
local party. At least the forecast is that it won't be quite as bad
tomorrow. Good for acquiring leaves for leafmould. Which I have a
squad of volunteers to do on Wednesday.

Susan Setzler on sun 30 oct 05

I have been cutting mine out after fruiting in the fall, including the
spring ones. I heard that the fall will produce more if you do that,
and also less chance for disease. So you think it is better to have the
spring crop, too. I might do that this year. although spring I have
enough to do!

susan

Susan Setzler on sun 30 oct 05

OK thanks, I'll try it this year! and I am about the laziest!

susan

kathryn marsh on sun 30 oct 05

I'm basically lazy Susan but honestly I can't imagine mine being able
to produce a greater crop if I pruned them and the second crop comes
when we don't have any other varieties ripe to keep the supply of
fresh berries on the table. We actually produce far more raspberries
than we need and I find myself having to give them away because we
don't have freezer space. Problem with raspberries is that if you
don't pick them the berries rot and contaminate the others on the branch.

kathryn

Patricia Ruggiero on sun 30 oct 05

Susan wrote:

I let the Heritage primocanes fruit in the autumn (they actually start =
in
late summer) and then again in the spring. I've never experimented with
cutting them after the first (autumn) fruiting in order to, I suppose, =
leave
more energy in the root system to produce more vigorous primocanes the =
next
year. Actually, I like having my raspberry harvest strung out over a =
long
period, starting with the June-bearing Lathams, continuing with a =
steady,
albeit modest, harvest from the Heritage. Our favorite way to eat them =
is
fresh, a handful with breakfast granola, a handful over ice cream on a =
hot
summer night, a few with a bite of bitter chocolate after dinner. Far
better, in my ever-so-humble opinion, to be able to pass by the =
raspberry
stand, at the end of the day, after picking the salad greens for the =
evening
meal, and grab a small quantity day after day, week after week, then to =
have
a giant harvest all at once and have to freeze them (which, of course, I
still do, because there are more than we can eat fresh).

Pat

JT Thompson on sun 30 oct 05

I was driving to Gleann na Sm??l, favourite hunting place of Fionn Mac
Cumhaill and the Fianna, today with a neighbour and our dogs, and the
rain was so heavy on the windscreen that we could scarcely see out.
By the time we got to the glen it was calm and warm and beautiful.

JT Thompson on sun 30 oct 05

Ah, this is good, Kathryn, thanks. Surprisingly, they don't fruit
that heavily. But that's my mystery garden.

Tony and Moira on mon 31 oct 05

I got myself what purported to be Heritage raspberries some years ago and
put in a short row which I tried pruning for autumn crop. The result was
very poor growth of summer canes and no autumn fruiting.

Ironically enought though my older plants (variety unknown as I got them
from a neighbour) about the same time actually took to producing the odd
autumn cane and have done so ever since.

As to the ?? Heritage, they have performed quite well, though never
spectacularly when pruned for summer fruiting. I should I suppose replace
them, but we do get enough fruit from the patch to satisfy us and our
friends anyway.

Actually my raspberries, if they had read the book, should have long ago
have stopped cropping at all, as there have been canes in that same place
for close on fifty years (and I saw once that about twenty is as long as it
is profitable to use the same site). The main problem to moving them would
be the cage they grow in to defeat the blackbirds and thrushes. I don't
think Tony now has the energy to rebuild it even if we could figure a new
site for them.

I ascribe the long successful survival of my patch to very generous yearly
applications of compost, plus trace elements and occasional mineral powder
and enhanced by a summer mulch of pea straw. This must go along way to
preventing depletion of the soil. We have never had much in the way of pests
and diseses. Occasionally a few of the plants have a odd leaf or two with
rust (mostly on the spent canes) and at one time some of the fruit was
spoilt by the grubs of a tiny beetle, but in recent years I have not seen
this particular pest.

Moira

Tony and Moira on mon 31 oct 05

Exactly

Moira

pam on thu 3 nov 05

Ah, this is good, Kathryn, thanks. Surprisingly, they don't fruit
that heavily. But that's my mystery garden.