susan, like everything you said. Take exception to this quote below..
> Even if you grow your own food, did you know that you very likely are
> eating genetically engineered food? Food coming from...
It's just not true at all. If I grow my own food, the only way it could
be a GMO would be if the seed were such . Are you implying that the
bulk of the seed supply at present is genetically enginneered????i think
not. There is plenty of non-gmo seed out there from many many seed
suppliers.
That's only peeve. keep pluggin'
billevans
How come the post came with attached advertisement and even a cookie?
Colette =
Susan Snow a =E9crit:
(snip)
Colette Tremblay wrote:
<
Colette and everyone else,
I'm sorry. I found that I could
some listserves, but not, wherever there are digests. I won't do that
again. I have no idea why the advertisements went through, and even a
cookie, yet, without the article's text. I'm still learning my way
around Netscape and the Netscape Communicator software.
Did you open the URL of the Washington Post article whose title is the
subject of that email? If any of you live in the U.S., would you please
ask Congress to give us mandatory labeling which allows us the right to
know whether or not something is genetically engineered? One way you
can do this is to sign the online petition at the Mothers for Natural
Law website
Thanks in advance for signing...and, sorry for the scrambled document.
Susan Snow
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:10:39 -0700
From: William Evans
Subject: Re: Seed suuply needs prtection
Terry,
not to diminish the problem,, but there are many reliable seed sources
that have plenty of non GMO seed. Ive been buying seed and studying seed
catalogs/vendors for years and I have yet to see any GMO seed of any
great quantity (.01% maybe of varieties supplied). Your not confusing
hybrid seed w/ GMO seed are you?
Bill Evans
Terry J. Klokeid wrote:
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:10:16 -0400
From: "Libby J. Goldstein"
Subject: NORTHERN TOMATOES
Eliza,
Seed Savers Exchange and some catalogs have tomato varieties that have
been
growing in the former Soviet Union for many years, Black Prince, Black
Krim
among others. You might want to try those.
Libby
libby@igc.apc.org Libby J. Goldstein phone & fax:
215-465-8878
Philadelphia USDA zone 7A Sunset zone 32
My garden must be n-dimensional if it's out here in cyberspace.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:39:09 PDT
From: Carla Goodloe
Subject: unsubscribe
------------------------------
End of OGL Digest - 23 Sep 1998 to 24 Sep 1998
**********************************************
A number of people had a problem with the estimated 60 to 70 percent
figure of genetically engineered foods that can turn up on grocery store
shelves.
Perhaps, this occurred because I misread the information before posting
it. The data DID NOT read 60 to 70 percent of the seeds. Rather, 60 to
70 percent of the products of primarily processed foods are being
genetically engineered.
My apologies.
Nevertheless, consider this:
Soy flour, soy oil, lecithin, soy protein isolates and concentrates.
Products that may contain genetically engineered soy derivatives:
vitamin E, tofu dogs, cereals, veggie burgers and sausages, tamari, soy
sauce, chips, ice cream, frozen yogurt, infant formula, sauces, protein
powder, margarine, soy cheeses, crackers, breads, cookies, chocolates,
candies, fried foods, shampoo, bubble bath, cosmetics, enriched flours
and pastas.
Corn flour, corn starch, corn oil, corn sweeteners, syrups. Products
that may contain genetically engineered corn derivatives:
vitamin C, tofu dogs, chips, candies, ice cream, infant formula, salad
dressings, tomato sauces, breads, cookies, cereals, baking powder,
alcohol, vanilla, margarine, soy sauce, tamari, soda, fried foods,
powdered sugar, enriched flours and pastas.
Canola: Oil. Products that may contain genetically engineered canola
derivatives: chips, salad dressings, cookies, margarine, soaps,
detergents, soy cheeses, fried foods.
Cotton: Oil, fabric, seed-meal. Products that may contain genetically
engineered cotton or its derivatives: clothes, linens, chips, peanut
butter, crackers, cookies.
Potatoes: Right now the only potato that has been genetically engineered
is the Burbank Russet, but you still have to look out for potato starch
and flour. Products that may contain genetically engineered potatoes or
derivatives: unspecified processed or restaurant potato products (fries,
mashed, baked, mixes, etc.), chips, Passover products, vegetable pies,
soups.
Tomatoes: No plum or roma tomatoes have been genetically engineered.
But one cherry tomato has, as have regular tomatoes. Products that may
contain genetically engineered tomatoes or derivatives: sauces,
purees, pizza, lasagna, and all of those wonderful Italian and Mexican
foods.
Dairy Products: Milk, cheese, butter, buttermilk, sour cream, yogurt,
whey. You have to ask several questions when you are looking at dairy
products. Have the cows been treated with rBGH? What kind of feed have
they been given? If they are not being fed organic grains, chances are
quite likely that they will be eating genetically engineered animal
feed. What does this do to their milk products? No one knows.
Animal Products: Because animal feed often contains genetically
engineered organisms, all animal products, or by-products may be
affected.
Crookneck squash is also being genetically engineered, as is cotton.
Hence, cottonseed, of which a gum derviative was reported as being an
ingredient in Ener-G Replacer by Tom Scut [subject: Re: Egg
replacements, 9/26/98]. Cottonseed is also heavily contaminated with
pesticides, unless it is organically grown.
Mothers for Natural Law says that food may contain these items and be
totally free from genetically engineered organisms, but scientists have
no way of tracking down every brand, every product, and every
ingredient. And, current labels do not tell us whether or not that
which is in the product ingredient is genetically engineered because
manufacturers are not required to list every ingredient, enzyme, or
organism on the label.
I believe that if genetic engineering is really so wonderful, let the
seed companies and food manufactures shout this on the label --why hide
this information? If not, consumers have a right to know. Regardless,
we need mandatory labeling which secures the consumers right to know.
If you are a citizen of the U.S., sign the petition which urges the
President, USDA, FDA, and the Congress to give us Mandatory Labeling of
all Genetically Engineered Foods. You will find this information and
more at the following website:
http://www.safe-food.org/-campaign/petition.html
Susan Snow
Susan wrote:
<
Bill Evans wrote:
<
the bulk of the seed supply at present is genetically enginneered????i
think not. There is plenty of non-gmo seed out there from many many
seed suppliers.>>
Bill,
I stand corrected and apologize for my misstake.
According to an article entitled _Feeding Frenzy_ by the Gene Exchange
(Union for Concerned Scientists) (sent to me via snail mail from M4NL),
dated September, 1998:
Monsanto has acquired a ''spate'' of seed companies and ''joint ventures
with Cargill and Millennium and then merged with American Home Products,
a multinational pharmaceutical firm. In May, Monsanto completed its
buyout of DeKalb Genetics, the nation's second largest seed company and
the top corn seed company. Coupled with last year's purchase of Holden's
Foundation Seeds and licensing arrangements with Golden Harvest Seeds
and Sandoz, Monsanto now controls a significant portion of the US corn
seed market.''
''As owner of the two largest cotton seed companies'' in the U.S., ''the
company also dominates the cotton seed sector. In May, Monsanto bought
Delta and Pine Land, the number one company. It already owned the number
two products, Stoneville and Pedigreed Seed, through its purchases of
Calgene..
''Monsanto is also a serious player in the soybean seed market--having
acquired Asgrow Agronomics, which controls 18 percent of the US
market.'' In May, Monsanto entered a joint venture with Cargill, a
global agricultural giant, to use biotechnology to create new animal
feed products. ''Last fall, Monsanto agreed to collaborate with
Millennium Pharmaceuticals on genomics research to create new plant and
agricultural products.''
In early June, Monsanto agreed to merge with AHP, a major drug and
health products company, for $34 billion in stock. ''That deal, if it
goes through, will create a huge life-sciences company ready to use
biotechnology for new products in pharmaceutical, food, and agricultural
industries.''
The Gene Exchange cited as their sources:
E. Kaiser, ''Monsanto gobbles biotech seed companies,'' Reuters
Financial Report [RFP], 5/11/98; ''Monsanto, Cargill in venture,'' RFP,
5/14/98; N.Y. Times, Wall Street Journal, and Washington Post, 6/2/98,
6/3/98 articles on AHP/Monsanto deal: Monsanto press release, ''Monsanto
and Millennium enter major genomics alliance,'' 10/28/97..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How does this seed acquisition translate to the food we purchase?
At
Primary Suspects: Ingredients and Products to Check
Soybeans: Soy flour, soy oil, lecithin, soy protein isolates and
concentrates. Products that may contain genetically engineered soy
derivatives: vitamin E, tofu dogs, cereals, veggie burgers and sausages,
tamari, soy sauce, chips, ice cream, frozen yogurt, infant formula,
sauces, protein powder, margarine, soy cheeses, crackers, breads,
cookies, chocolates, candies, fried foods, shampoo, bubble bath,
cosmetics, enriched flours and pastas.
Corn: Corn flour, corn starch, corn oil, corn sweeteners, syrups.
Products that may contain genetically engineered corn derivatives:
vitamin C, tofu dogs, chips, candies, ice cream, infant formula, salad
dressings, tomato sauces, breads, cookies, cereals, baking powder,
alcohol, vanilla, margarine, soy sauce, tamari, soda, fried foods,
powdered sugar, enriched flours and pastas.
Canola: Oil. Products that may contain genetically engineered canola
derivatives: chips, salad dressings, cookies, margarine, soaps,
detergents, soy cheeses, fried foods.
Cotton: Oil, fabric. Products that may contain genetically engineered
cotton or its derivatives: clothes, linens, chips, peanut butter,
crackers, cookies.
Potatoes: Right now the only potato that has been genetically engineered
is the Burbank Russet, but you still have to look out for potato starch
and flour. Products that may contain genetically engineered potatoes or
derivatives: unspecified processed or restaurant potato products (fries,
mashed, baked, mixes, etc.), chips, Passover products, vegetable pies,
soups.
Tomatoes: No plum or roma tomatoes have been genetically engineered. But
one cherry tomato has, as have regular tomatoes. Products that may
contain genetically engineered tomatoes or derivatives: sauces,
purees, pizza, lasagna, and all of those wonderful Italian and Mexican
foods.
Dairy Products: Milk, cheeses [inc. cottage cheese] butter, buttermilk,
sour cream, yogurt, whey. You have to ask several questions when you are
looking at dairy products. Have the cows been treated with rBGH? What
kind of feed have they been given? If they are not being fed organic
grains, chances are quite likely that they will be eating genetically
engineered animal feed. What does this do to their milk products? No one
knows.
Animal Products: Because animal feed often contains genetically
engineered organisms, all animal products, or by-products may be
affected.
Don't let Monsanto and the other biotech firms expand and get all the
nation's seeds possibly spoil America's milk. Sign the petition (and
forward or hand it to others) that gives Americans the right to know if
a product has any ingredients which have been genetically altered.
Monsanto and other biotech/pesticide/pharmaceutical firms claim:
Genetic engineering will reduce the use of herbicides.
Fact: Genetic engineering promotes herbicide resistant crops. This
allows the farmer to use more herbicide [without killing the crop]. The
development of Roundup Ready(tm) crops is a vehicle for building sales
of Roundup(tm).
[For the toxicology of Roundup [tm], see:
http://www.enviroweb.org/hecweb/archive/glyphos1.htm]
Claim: Genetic engineering will reduce the use of pesticides.
Fact: Genetic engineers create crops that produce their own pesticides.
The outcome is a persistent concentration of pesticides over vast
acreages. Some of these crops are actually classified as pesticides by
the EPA.
Claim: Genetic engineering is environmentally friendly.
Fact: The increased quantities of herbicides and pesticides noted above
is one strike against this claim. Genetically engineered crops pollinate
cultivated and wild relatives up to a mile away. This threatens the
future of organic crops. It can pass herbicide resistance genes from GE
crops to weedy relatives, necessitating the development of more
herbicides. Also, the huge areas of genetically identical crops will
influence the evolution of local pests and wildlife, and through the
food chain, the whole ecology.
Claim: Genetically engineered foods are just like natural foods.
Fact: There is no natural mechanism for getting insect DNA into
potatoes or flounder DNA into tomatoes. Genetically engineered foods
are engineered to be different from natural foods. Why else all the
patents? This claim is empty sales talk.
For more facts and claims, see:
http://www.safe-food.org/-issue/claims.html
To sign the petition, http://www.safe-food.org/-campaign/petition.html
Is the ''land of the free'' for the multinational enterprise only? What
about the rest of us?
Susan Snow
What I'd like to know regarding the subject of genetically engineered
plants and seeds is what is its importance regarding usage by
mammals? Isn't the purpose of the engineering to hurry what would
occur in nature perhaps over hundreds of years? In other words,
isn't it hurrying the process of natural selection? What's wrong with
that?
Barbara Davis zone 7/8 southwest of Fort Worth, TX
mammals? Isn't the purpose of the engineering to hurry what would
> occur in nature perhaps over hundreds of years?
no,doubt some of the things they're doing would ever even remotely come
close to happening. Remember they're going across the board for
ammuninition.ie hardness of armor (armadillo) inserted into potatoes to
make them better to ship..
In other words,
> isn't it hurrying the process of natural selection?
no
What's wrong with
They are doing things that mother nature cannot. In nature, two species
have to be somewhat closely related to be able to cross and share DNA.
In the lab, they can take genes from one organism and put them in another
that is not even in the same family, much less the same genus.
One example of why this can be a problem:
Several years ago, experimenters put some genes from brazil nuts into
soybeans (I've forgotten exactly why.) Those genes, it turned out, made
anyone with nut allergies also allergic to the soybeans. The scientists
did not intend that, they just didn't know that those particular genes
were the ones that caused the allergic reaction. For anyone with food
allergies, genetic engineering with foods is a real nightmare. It's hard
enough sometimes to keep track of the 'natural' forms of allergens,
without having to worry about the manmade ones as well.
Jenny Herl | "The world has enough for everyone's need,
jlherl@uiuc.edu | but not enough for everyone's greed."
University of Illinois |
Urbana-Champaign | --attributed to Mahatma Ghandi (1869-1948)
Jenny Herl wrote:>
They were trying to make the amino acid balance of the soybean more
complete. I believe they were trying to enhance the production of
methionine in the soybean by adding the brazil nut gene sequence coding
for methionine
> Those genes, it turned out, made
> anyone with nut allergies also allergic to the soybeans. The scientists
> did not intend that, they just didn't know that those particular genes
> were the ones that caused the allergic reaction.
Right. Methionine was NOT the only thing the DNA sequence coded for.
> For anyone with food
> allergies, genetic engineering with foods is a real nightmare. It's hard
> enough sometimes to keep track of the 'natural' forms of allergens,
> without having to worry about the manmade ones as well.
Amen to that. I have to avoid wheat, which is difficult enough as it
is, plus a few other more minor things. I have spent several years
painstakingly excluding various things from my diet to try and isolate
what makes me ill from what does not. Right now I know with very good
confidence what I can eat and what I must avoid. The idea of having to
start from scatch in figuring this out again, while feeling deathly ill
much of the time without knowing why, is a terrible spectre indeed.
Loren M.
