Janet ,in your brochure , will you touch on some of the organic
controls....i think either Howard Garrett, or another fellow down in
Texas came up w/ a concoction of compost, manure, oraANGE oil, and
something else that when poured on the mounds w/kill w/i a couple
days,,,theorize that the orange oil breaks down the ants cuticle(skin)
... the biota then has freee reign to attaack. I believe the only
organic control I saw on USDA site was boiling water(which works I would
think most of the time)..THe rest of the suggestions dealt w/ toxic
measures.... Also heard thru the grapevine that if u want to get a
nursery license round these parts(S. Cali) one needs to dip ALL
rootballs in poison to eradicate, prior to shipment .Have to check on
that as that was a dream of mine at one time.
diego bill
The IFA's got into the wooden pallets on which the
Janet Wintermute wrote:
> I don't think there are any organic controls for fire ants.
What???? Eric Acosta,,Bunny,,,can you pitch in here?
I believe the Gardenville product has had some success as well as the
"kleen kill"enzymatic cleaner.
bill
I don't think there are any organic controls for fire ants. It's not at all
hard to kill individual fire ants. Boiling water works, for instance. The
problem is the behavior of the ants in the mound when the mound is attacked.
The worker ants immediately grab the queen and bury her very deeply in the
mound. If chemicals, boiling water, etc., get anywhere close to her, the
workers spring her free and she flies off with a few male buddies and founds
a new colony.
Around 1996, our fire-ant guy, Homer Collins at our Gulfport, Mississippi,
lab told me that fire ant colonies with two queens had begun to show up.
That was a complete change in the species' behavior and, of course, made it
just that much harder to defeat them.
Bazillion entrepreneurs have approached Homer of the years with their
concoctions, many of which will dispatch individual ants but none of which
has proven to be the silver bullet everybody wants to find.
In general, we've found that pesticide-laced baits work better than contact
insecticides because the baits get carried back into the mound to feed the
ants that live all the time inside it. And even the queen has to eat....
The general scope of the current brochure follows the lead of several
different state departments of agriculture in suggesting a two-step
approach: use of broadcast baits on large fire-ant-infested areas, followed
by spot application of contact insecticides to the surviving mounds only.
> Also heard thru the grapevine that if u want to get a
> nursery license round these parts(S. Cali) one needs to dip ALL
> rootballs in poison to eradicate, prior to shipment .Have to check on
> that as that was a dream of mine at one time.
Sorry, don't have any info on state-level requirements for getting a nursery
license. It is true that in parts of the United States currently infested
with fire ants, nurseries must pretreat all plants to be shipped to
noninfested areas. Until very recently, California was not involved in this
problem. Now the rules may have changed.
--Janet
I don't know whether or not I've killed the entire mound of fire ants that
occasionally invade my property. However, by using a combination of first, 1
quart of spent coffee grounds; next, 1 cup diatomaceous earth plus borax or
boric acid; followed a couple days later by a boiling water, peppermint soap,
Tabasco Sauce and cayenne pepper combination. And, of course, stirring the mound
with a long stick. The ants have vacated my property. I've either killed the
mound or chased them out of the area.
Whereas, neighbors who use poisons, such as diazinon which tend to inhibit an
enzyme, cholinesterase which is needed for proper functioning of the nervous
system of birds, other vertebrates, including humans, and insects kill more than
ants. These chemicals can kill other life forms, including birds, pets,
children and others. Potential symptoms include: twitching, trembling,
paralyzed breathing, convulsions, and in extreme cases, death. Organophosphate
pesticides were developed as nerve gases during World War II. To better
understand how these and other cholinesterase inhibitors work and which
insecticides they entail, see:
Alternative methods, include: beneficial nematodes which kills ants, termites
and the larval and grub stages of various beetles, weevils, armyworms, cutworms,
chafers, webworms, borers, maggots, fleas, fungus gnats.
Borax or boric acid: Kills roaches, water bugs, ants, fleas and silverfish.
Other critters, such as Lion ants (Pheidole megacephala) have been traditionally
used by the small farmers of Cuba to rid the compound of fire ants (Solenopsis
geminata). See: See: Predatious Ants Patrol Sweet Potatoes in Cuba, at the URL
of:
http://www.enviroweb.org/publications/rodale/ag-sieve/vol3no1.html#predatious
To learn of other sources of fire ant controls, email:
BIRC is the Bio-Integral Resource Center (BIRC), P.O. Box 7414, Berkeley, CA
94707
BTW, I've also found that fire ants prefer sunny locations.
~Bunny Snow
not an expert, but becoming more experienced in South Louisiana
where laws protect polluters and victims are punished.
______________________________________________________
Janet Wintermute wrote:
William Evans wrote:
Eric Acosta, Director of the Biocontrol Network has recommended Kleen Kill
Enzyme Cleaner to eliminate ants and other unwanted critters. See:
http://www.biconet.com/kkec.html
I suspect that it works on insects by penetrating the exoskeleton. For
more information, write to Eric
I use things I have on hand, as mentioned in my last email. There are a
number of organic controls for fire ants. Otherwise, I'd be knee deep in
fire ants mounds by now, as I live in South Louisiana.
~Bunny Snow
Janet Wintermute wrote:
<< I don't think there are any organic controls for fire ants.>>
Hi Janet,
I don't have fire ant mounds any more because the organic controls I've
used have eliminated them from my property in Lafayette, Louisiana.
However, my neighbors have them despite continually using synthetic
pesticides. Pesticides which not only harm but kill beneficial insects,
vertebrates (including birds) but humans as well because they inhibit an
important enzyme to the nervous system. It's all very difficult for me
to understand, which is why I recommended that you read
the Pesticide Information Project of Cornell and other top university
extension services.
In addition to the methods I used to eliminate fire ants from my
property, are Kleen Kill Enzymes, the only approved cleaner that
inadvertently also destroys/digest fungus, mold, mildew, and insects.
KLEEN KILL ENZYMES are a safe pest control with preformed enzyme
cleaner. According to Eric Lacosta:
''...You can pour preformed enzyme cleaner concentrate into a hose-end
sprayer and spray your yard to safely control earwigs, crickets,
mosquitoes, grubs, ants and other pest problems.
If you spray all visible pests, cracks and crevices and other hiding
places with 4 oz. of enzymes per quart of water you will control all
roaches, ants, spiders, crickets and silverfish in your home.
Spray yellow jacket, hornet and wasp nests at night with 4 oz. of enzyme
and 1 oz. of liquid soap per quart of water to safely control these
pests - if nests are in the ground - soak them with 3-5 gallons of water
with 4 oz. per gallon of enzyme....Ant nests in the ground can be soaked
with 3-4 oz. of enzyme cleaner per gallon (you may need to use 3-4
gallons of water on large nests) put a hole in the nest to receive the
mix.'' For more uses and information, see:
There are many, many uses for this intriguing cleaner. Lagniappe is
that it also controls ants and other pests!
Bunny Snow
Before we go clear off the deep end on this issue, let me clarify that
killing individual fire ants is no big problem. Boiling water will do it
and so will contact insecticides that work on ordinary ants.
When you pour boiling water on *your* mound, you do kill a lot of
individual, non-sexually active worker ants. Getting rid of them means they
can't sting you, which is a benefit. But typically you do not do the kind
of damage that brings long-term relief because you haven't killed the queen.
The 1996-or-so discovery that the species has modified its behavior to
include two queens in many mounds was a discouraging setback to scientists
trying to get a grip on this pest.
Bear in mind that the exoskeleton-dissolving potions can't work on any bug
they don't touch. The chances of these products getting deep inside a
mound, to reach the queen's chamber, are about zero unless they are attached
to a food item that workers carry inside to feed her and the sexually active
male ants in her inner circle.
--Janet
Janet,
This season I've been too busy to do any posting to OGL but I've been
following the fire ant thread with great interest.
It seems to me that using some sort of soil injection (pressurized?)
device would work pretty well for applying a Kleen Kill or similar
enzyme solution to the fire ant mounds. The trick would be to get the
solution under pressure to saturate the queen(s) living quarters
quickly, before they leave the nest.
If applying the solution under high pressure is too complicated I would
think it would be possible to insert some sort of soil injection device
under a large piece of plastic. If one would bury the edges of the
plastic, it should prevent the queen(s) from escaping until the enzymes
could do their work.
The preformed enzymes are supposed to be perfectly safe for aquatic use
so there shouldn't be the same groundwater concerns one would have
about injecting dangerous chemical contact insecticides deep into the
ground. Ditto, concerns for people. I'm not clear on what effect the
enzymes might have on soil microrganisms but surely it could be no
worse than commonly used chemical solutions and would probably be
temporary.
Granted, any beneficials occupying the same territory as the ants nests
would be killed but the toxic chemical alternatives seem to be a whole
lot less desirable. If the enzymes were used on nests where biological
controls hadn't worked you could even minimize that problem.
The product literature I have says that the Kleen Kill is not an EPA
registered pesticide but has a long list of safety cites including one
from USDA Food Safety & Inspection Service (approved for general
purpose cleaners in meat/poultry plants).
I do hope the USDA doesn't just blow off at least taking a serious look
at enzymes as a potential control for fire ants. It is my impression
that the the mechanism by which the the enzymes (protease?) dissolve
the exoskeleton is well understood. It seems to me the problem would be
simply sorting out an effective delivery system. Mundane stuff compared
to biological research but it seems to me the enzymes offer a great
deal of promise.
---
Peggy Enes (peggy@unicom.net) Zone 5/6 NE KS AHS Heat Zone 7
Bill,
That native plant nursery that I mentioned recently claims that they
are required to put Diazinon pellets in the potting soil of all plants.
They say we live in a "fire ant quarantine zone", and they cannot ship
plants outside of South Carolina without it.
Bummer.
I understand that we don't want to ship those spawned-from-Hell ants to
other parts of the country, I just wish they didn't have to use chemicals.
My own dilemma is in buying plants that have Diazinon pellets, but there
is no better source of native plants locally.
Best,
Tiffany
Janet,
The chemical controls do not kill the queens either--they just move to another
spot. If they did kill the queen, we would have conquered the fire ant problem
long ago. I have been fighting them for 15 years. I wonder if all the chemicals
are the reason the mounds now have two queens.
I have had much, much better results using organic methods. I have some
information from the Texas Agricultural Extension Service and hard-core
organi-phobes that they are, they now even include organic methods of control in
their literature. There may be info on their site. My info is on paper.
http://agextension.tamu.edu/
Also check Howard Garrett's site:
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/
Ruth
Janet Wintermute wrote:
Ideally, whatever control is used, a probe to inject whatever
solution under pressure must be used to ensure maximum success.
Sneaking up slowly on them..no unnecessary vibration to alert the guard
i should think, would also help.
diego bill
Date: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: Imported Red Fire Ant
Sounds a bit like one of our organic meat suppliers being forced to put
Sodium Nitrate in it's prepared meats to meet provincial standards.
Just started reading Sara's followup to "Noah's Garden" - called "Planting
Noah's Garden". She makes a good case for buying bare rooted plants - maybe
one way to avoid fire ants and pellets.
Gil
