I was just at the produce stand here and they have started selling produc=
e
that's "California Clean." Apparently a very limited amount of "safe"
pesticides are used along with good land management, etc. I asked the gu=
y
who's family owns the stand and they have been very impressed with this
group of farmers. Of course, I'd rather get organic but these are small
farmers who seem to be doing a good job. You can get more info on them a=
t:
http://www.californiaclean.com/=0D
=0D
Patti=0D
=0D
-------Original Message-------=0D
=0D
From: Gardens & Gardening=0D
Date: 06/29/04 11:18:08=0D
To: GARDENS@LSV.UKY.EDU=0D
Subject: Re: Pesticides on produce=0D
=0D
Well, thank goodness for our food co-op, my garden and the Farmer's=0D
Market. Scary information, Debbie!=0D
=0D
Jackie=0D
Iowa=0D
On Jun 29, 2004, at 12:51 PM, Deborah Green wrote:=0D
=0D
=0D
******************************=0D
=0D
Gardens are a form of autobiography.=0D
=0D
--Sydney Eddison=0D
=0D
******************************
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
This is the same information we received before too. If one had never had
a vegetable garden, one might be tempted to believe these figures. I do
not. High numbers of pesticides on bell peppers? Baloney, to put it
nicely. And pretty clean of pesticides? Broccoli? They're out of their
minds. Those two are the most obvious to me, and once I detect something
that amiss I tend not to believe the entire "study." They also do want you
to donate....I am definitely NOT attacking Debbie.
Margaret L
Gardening in Intermountain West and Handicapped gardening
http://www.margaretlauterbach.com
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
Well, thank goodness for our food co-op, my garden and the Farmer's
Market. Scary information, Debbie!
Jackie
Iowa
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
Here is link for information on the pesticide and produce research that was
discussed awhile back:
http://www.foodnews.org/reportcard.php
There is even a wallet card you can print out to carry with you when you
shop...
Debbie
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
Thank you for sharing this! I need to grow more of my own vegetables, and buy more organic!
Elizabeth
tiarella@bellsouth.net
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
Well, I don't think farmers are stupid, nor are they wasteful. Perhaps I'm
wrong. If so, maybe someone ought to re-train them for other
occupations. What are they spraying pesticides on peppers to
kill? Aphids? An occasional tobacco hornworm gets on peppers, but I
didn't see BT on the list of pesticides. How does one grow broccoli
without some sort of insect control? Since these same pesticide figures
keep popping up over and over, I think someone botched the study in the
first place and it's being repeated over and over. This non-profit says
these tests were conducted by the USDA and FDA in this manner, but I wonder
if those agencies verify that. We are getting second-hand information,
but I do not trust the FDA nor the USDA on this either. Those jerks are
subjecting us to frankenfoods whether we want them or not. They are not
testing any GM foods on the principle that if it walks like a duck, and
quacks like a duck, then it is a duck.
Website:
directors. States names of foundation funders, but gives no grant amounts
or purposes.
It apparently is a liberal organization, but unlike dittoheads, I can think
for myself, and I think this is bullroar.
> Margaret;
> My point in providing the link was that you could read all about the
> methodology and see the actual data. I've pasted part of it in below.
> There is much more info on the site.
Margaret L
Gardening in Intermountain West and Handicapped gardening
http://www.margaretlauterbach.com
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
Margaret;
My point in providing the link was that you could read all about the
methodology and see the actual data. I've pasted part of it in below.
There is much more info on the site. I think it is pretty thorough and
convincing. They are providing info to consumers on tests conducted by the
USDA and the FDA. What other methods would you recommend to clarify these
results? According to the group website "The Environmental Working Group is
a non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to using the power of
information to protect human health and the environment. We depend on the
generosity of private foundations, individuals and select corporations to
support EWG's efforts to keep toxins out of our air, water, food and
bodies." What non-profit group doesn't ask for donations? Don't dismiss
the information without studying it more carefully.
Debbie
The Shopper's Guide to Pesticides in Produce ranks pesticide contamination
for 46 popular fruits and vegetables based on an analysis of over 100,000
tests for pesticides on these foods, conducted from 1992 - 2001 by the U.S.
Department of Agriculture and the Food and Drug Administration.
Contamination was measured in six different ways and crops were ranked based
on a composite score from all categories.
The six measures of contamination we used were:
* Percent of the samples tested with detectable pesticides
* Percent of the samples with two or more pesticides
* Average number of pesticides found on a sample
* Average amount (level in parts per million) of all pesticides found
* Maximum number of pesticides found on a single sample
* Number of pesticides found on the commodity in total
-----Original Message-----
From: Gardens & Gardening [mailto:GARDENS@LSV.UKY.EDU] On Behalf Of
Margaret Lauterbach
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:29 PM
To: GARDENS@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: Pesticides on produce
This is the same information we received before too. If one had never had
a vegetable garden, one might be tempted to believe these figures. I do
not. High numbers of pesticides on bell peppers? Baloney, to put it
nicely. And pretty clean of pesticides? Broccoli? They're out of their
minds. Those two are the most obvious to me, and once I detect something
that amiss I tend not to believe the entire "study." They also do want you
to donate....I am definitely NOT attacking Debbie.
Margaret L
Gardening in Intermountain West and Handicapped gardening
http://www.margaretlauterbach.com
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
Margaret,
You obviously did not thoroughly explore these issues before firing off your
reply. The EWG site DOES list its directors see:
http://www.ewg.org/about/board.php
although they only list a partial list of its funding sources at:
http://www.ewg.org/about/funding.php
you can go to any of those foundations and find out the details of the
funding.
Here is a USDA publication that describes the Pesticide Data Program:
http://www.usda.gov/factbook/chapter12.pdf
It is also possible to go to the original USDA reports; they have tons of
reports on their site. I'm sure the FDA does, too.
If you do a search on pesticide residue and bell peppers you'll find lots of
links to establish that this is an issue. Don't forget much produce is
imported and/or raised in greenhouses so different pest problems may develop
in these very different growing situations.
Who said farmers are stupid or wasteful? The point is that some produce as
typically found in markets and prepared for eating at home retains more
pesticide than others. I'm sure the methodologies have flaws, but why
condemn the results without thoroughly reviewing the data for yourself?
-----Original Message-----
From: Gardens & Gardening [mailto:GARDENS@LSV.UKY.EDU] On Behalf Of
Margaret Lauterbach
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 4:51 PM
To: GARDENS@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: Pesticides on produce
Well, I don't think farmers are stupid, nor are they wasteful. Perhaps I'm
wrong. If so, maybe someone ought to re-train them for other
occupations. What are they spraying pesticides on peppers to
kill? Aphids? An occasional tobacco hornworm gets on peppers, but I
didn't see BT on the list of pesticides. How does one grow broccoli
without some sort of insect control? Since these same pesticide figures
keep popping up over and over, I think someone botched the study in the
first place and it's being repeated over and over. This non-profit says
these tests were conducted by the USDA and FDA in this manner, but I wonder
if those agencies verify that. We are getting second-hand information,
but I do not trust the FDA nor the USDA on this either. Those jerks are
subjecting us to frankenfoods whether we want them or not. They are not
testing any GM foods on the principle that if it walks like a duck, and
quacks like a duck, then it is a duck.
Website:
directors. States names of foundation funders, but gives no grant amounts
or purposes.
It apparently is a liberal organization, but unlike dittoheads, I can think
for myself, and I think this is bullroar.
> Margaret;
> My point in providing the link was that you could read all about the
> methodology and see the actual data. I've pasted part of it in below.
> There is much more info on the site.
Margaret L
Gardening in Intermountain West and Handicapped gardening
http://www.margaretlauterbach.com
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
My problem with reports such as these is, where's the problem? The
fact that pesticides are detected really doesn't mean much. The real
question is was the amount of any particular pesticide found above
levels that would cause health problems. USDA and EPA have established
tolerable limits of various pesticides on various crops. In terms of
toxic substances the dose makes the poison. One example I used in my
teaching was sodium floride. A very toxic substance in terms of the
amount of chemical per animal body weight needed to cause health
problems. However, when taken in very small doses it improves your
teeth. I support any private group keeping tabs on pesticide levels on
our food or the environment but sometimes the data are presented more
as scare tactics than as useful information. Publishing a report that
primarily emphasizes that pesticides were found, without clarifying the
amount found in relation to known tolerances is not useful.
Bob
=====================
Bob Stewart
Southern Maryland (USDA Zone 7)
bobstewart@gardenright.info
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
If you go back to the original data on the USDA website they do provide the
percentage of samples in violation of EPA standards. There is also a
section on this website (with references):
http://www.foodnews.org/reduce.php
about why it might be a good idea to reduce our exposure to pesticide
residue. The point is we have little long-term data on the effect of many
pesticides on people and there have been some unpleasant surprises in the
past. There are many pesticides for which levels have been reset once
adverse effects have been detected. In the most recent annual report the
EPA has online they mention that they have reassessed 6400 pesticide residue
tolerance levels and revoked 1900 of them; see
http://www.epa.gov/oppfead1/annual/2002/2002annualreport.pdf
That's a pretty large flip-flop! They also make it clear that the
tolerances are only "a reasonable certainty of no harm." I don't worry much
about this, but if I were pregnant or still had young children I'd be
inclined to err on the side of reducing exposure.
Debbie (As an educator I am discouraged by what I perceive as resistance to
considering new information that might alter our points of view, whatever
they might be and however well-informed)
-----Original Message-----
From: Gardens & Gardening [mailto:GARDENS@LSV.UKY.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob
Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 12:55 AM
To: GARDENS@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: Pesticides on produce
My problem with reports such as these is, where's the problem? The
fact that pesticides are detected really doesn't mean much. The real
question is was the amount of any particular pesticide found above
levels that would cause health problems. USDA and EPA have established
tolerable limits of various pesticides on various crops. In terms of
toxic substances the dose makes the poison. One example I used in my
teaching was sodium floride. A very toxic substance in terms of the
amount of chemical per animal body weight needed to cause health
problems. However, when taken in very small doses it improves your
teeth. I support any private group keeping tabs on pesticide levels on
our food or the environment but sometimes the data are presented more
as scare tactics than as useful information. Publishing a report that
primarily emphasizes that pesticides were found, without clarifying the
amount found in relation to known tolerances is not useful.
Bob
=====================
Bob Stewart
Southern Maryland (USDA Zone 7)
bobstewart@gardenright.info
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
What is it we don't understand about the word "toxic"? I struggle
with this question from the standpoint of having been a toxicologist.
Debbie hit the nail right-on about the little-paid-attention-to
surprise of long-term exposure. I don't have an essay to share on
pesticides on or in produce. It's a useless lecture because very few
think of the consequences for the future; it's a political and
economic issue for the present.
I'm in conflict with local officials about a coke plant (making coal
into coke) that is about to be built along Lake Erie. The EPA rushed
a permit through channels so the plant does not have to deal with
tight restrictions. It will create 100 new jobs for the economy,
lots of money for the city to support building new schools, and
millions of pounds of air pollution, including mercury.
There will only be a "little bit of toxicity" resulting from the
emissions, say the officials, a "tolerable" amount. And, think of
those jobs to boost the economy! I say there will be even more jobs
for the respiratory technology industry and hospitals and morticians
from premature deaths.
The air emissions will settle on our land, our crops, my veggie
garden. The mercury will go out over Lake Erie and become a part of
the fisheries' nightmare and into the food chain ad nauseam. What is
it we don't understand about the word "toxic"?
--
Linda, gardening in NW Ohio near Toledo / Lake Erie (USDA Zone 5)
Metrofarm known as Blue Clay Plantation
llbs@accesstoledo.com
blueclay2@accesstoledo.com
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
I think the matter of pesticides on strawberries or green peppers is a
matter of scale, perspective.
We use pesticides daily...only we call them cleaners and soaps. We =
spray
Lysol around to sanitize surfaces, with little thought of what it might =
be
doing to us, too. DEET is toxic enough to keep mosquitoes at bay...and =
is
probably absorbed through our skin.
Public places are regularly fumigated to get rid of any 'bugs' that =
might be
lurking therein. Heaven help those of us who visit the next day, =
because
the pesticides levels are probably still relatively high, even with the =
best
of aeration.
Most herbs have natural pesticide protection...in those oils we value as
taste accents in our food. Rhubarb's natural pesticide is so good that =
you
can soak leaves in water and spray the resulting solution around to =
protect
your other plants. We eat stems, which are *relatively* pesticide free,
when compared to what's in those leaves.
All cargoes of cocoa beans must be thoroughly fumigated before they can =
be
imported into the USofA...we're probably eating a reasonable or =
unreasonably
large dose of pesticide with that chocolate bar, even if you discount =
the
caffeine. Caffeine does a number on slugs and snails, according to =
recent
reports...but at a dose that also slows plant growth, if it isn't =
carefully
applied. I'll still enjoy my morning dose of coffee...even if (or maybe
because) it's laced with that caffeine pesticide. :)
Compared to all that...maybe the pesticide on strawberries in a minor, =
if
not miniscule addition to what we're already ingesting.
Barb in Southern Indiana Zone 5/6 nonce@kiva.net
A garden is a friend you can visit any time.
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
Knowledge is power. Knowing where we encounter these potential toxins is
useful if you want to reduce your overall exposure. And I think there is
plenty of evidence that it is the cumulative effect of exposure that is the
only concern, ANY given exposure is minor. Although, personally, I never
use DEET because I know people who have had severe allergic reactions to it
even if it is on other people!
-----Original Message-----
From: Gardens & Gardening [mailto:GARDENS@LSV.UKY.EDU] On Behalf Of
Dorsett
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:48 AM
To: GARDENS@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: Pesticides on produce
I think the matter of pesticides on strawberries or green peppers is a
matter of scale, perspective.
We use pesticides daily...only we call them cleaners and soaps. We spray
Lysol around to sanitize surfaces, with little thought of what it might be
doing to us, too. DEET is toxic enough to keep mosquitoes at bay...and is
probably absorbed through our skin.
Public places are regularly fumigated to get rid of any 'bugs' that might be
lurking therein. Heaven help those of us who visit the next day, because
the pesticides levels are probably still relatively high, even with the best
of aeration.
Most herbs have natural pesticide protection...in those oils we value as
taste accents in our food. Rhubarb's natural pesticide is so good that you
can soak leaves in water and spray the resulting solution around to protect
your other plants. We eat stems, which are *relatively* pesticide free,
when compared to what's in those leaves.
All cargoes of cocoa beans must be thoroughly fumigated before they can be
imported into the USofA...we're probably eating a reasonable or unreasonably
large dose of pesticide with that chocolate bar, even if you discount the
caffeine. Caffeine does a number on slugs and snails, according to recent
reports...but at a dose that also slows plant growth, if it isn't carefully
applied. I'll still enjoy my morning dose of coffee...even if (or maybe
because) it's laced with that caffeine pesticide. :)
Compared to all that...maybe the pesticide on strawberries in a minor, if
not miniscule addition to what we're already ingesting.
Barb in Southern Indiana Zone 5/6 nonce@kiva.net
A garden is a friend you can visit any time.
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
******************************
Gardens are a form of autobiography.
--Sydney Eddison
******************************
