Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:54:50 -0400
From: Gil White
What's a weed ? Sort of tongue and cheek, but the only thing that
overruns my vegetable garden is grass. The odd dandelion, etc, but
what I'm constantly fighting is grass. This time of year I do my bug
check/(grass pulling)at the same time, and lay the uprooted grass on
top of the soil to act as a light mulch.
The best definition of a weed I've ever seen is from this book: Invasive
Plants : Weeds of the Global Garden (21st Century Gardening Series,
Handbook No. 149) by John M. Randall (Editor), Janet Marinelli (Editor).
Paperback - 112 pages (January 1997) Brooklyn Botanic Garden; ISBN:
0945352956.
They eschew the traditional defination of a weed as a plant that is
undesirable in the place where it grow in favor of one that looks at the
plants effect on the environment. Weeds are non-native plants that are
interfering with wildlife and native plant growth, mainly because of their
invasiveness.
The book lists 50 or so weeds, their impact, and how to remove them.
Unfortunately, most of the authors are round-up happy. Most expouse IPM
methods at least though.
Cyndi
_______________________________________________________________________________
Oakland, California Zone 9 USDA; Zone 16 Sunset Western Garden Guide
Disabled, chemically sensitive, wheelchair user Organic Gardening only
_______________________________________________________________________________
"There's nothing wrong with me. Maybe there's Cyndi Norman
something wrong with the universe." (ST:TNG) cyndi@consultclarity.com
http://www.consultclarity.com
_________________________ Owner of the Immune Lists http://www.best.com/~immune
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:31:36 +1200
From: Tony & Moira Ryan
Cyndi Norman wrote:
> The best definition of a weed I've ever seen is from this book: Invasive
> Plants : Weeds of the Global Garden (21st Century Gardening Series,
> Handbook No. 149) by John M. Randall (Editor), Janet Marinelli (Editor).
> Paperback - 112 pages (January 1997) Brooklyn Botanic Garden; ISBN:
> 0945352956.
> They eschew the traditional defination of a weed as a plant that is
> undesirable in the place where it grow in favor of one that looks at the
> plants effect on the environment. Weeds are non-native plants that are
> interfering with wildlife and native plant growth, mainly because of their
> invasiveness.
We have a rather odd situation in New Zealand. Because the original
vegetation of this country was close to 100% forest cover there are
extremely few native herbs and most of these occur along the edges of
beaches, on seacliffs or high up on mountains, so almost all the " wild
flowers" in the inhabited areas are plants which hitch hiked from
Britain or elsewhere along with imported crop plants. If you were to
class all these exotic plants as strictly weeds to be eliminated, our
roadsides and waste places would be largely unfurnished.
True, but the definition of a weed, as stated above, is not anything which
is not native. It is anything which is not native (or presumbly a native
plant out of balance in some way) which is wrecking ecological havoc.
So the Russell lupins would be weeds and your rosemary plant would not be.
"Weed" is usually defined differently for each indivudual (and even
differently for each section of the garden). I like the "Invasive Plants"
definition much better. It is more about ecology and less about what
someone can and can't tolerate. Like the person on rec.gardens who is
using chemicals to rid his *bermuda grass* lawn of white clover of all
things. (Bermuda grass is a horrible nasty weed to most people.)
If I define the clover, plantain, and dandelions in my lawn as weeds, then
I will see them as something to get rid of (or, at best, tolerate). If I
look at them as part the lawn itself then they are welcome. I've had many
people tell me I should use "just a small amount of chemicals" to get rid
of the weeds in my lawn. My reply is I have no weeds in my lawn.
Cyndi
_______________________________________________________________________________
Oakland, California Zone 9 USDA; Zone 16 Sunset Western Garden Guide
Disabled, chemically sensitive, wheelchair user Organic Gardening only
_______________________________________________________________________________
"There's nothing wrong with me. Maybe there's Cyndi Norman
something wrong with the universe." (ST:TNG) cyndi@consultclarity.com
http://www.consultclarity.com
_________________________ Owner of the Immune Lists http://www.best.com/~immune
Cyndi Norman wrote:
We have a rather odd situation in New Zealand. Because the original
vegetation of this country was close to 100% forest cover there are
extremely few native herbs and most of these occur along the edges of
beaches, on seacliffs or high up on mountains, so almost all the " wild
flowers" in the inhabited areas are plants which hitch hiked from
Britain or elsewhere along with imported crop plants. If you were to
class all these exotic plants as strictly weeds to be eliminated, our
roadsides and waste places would be largely unfurnished.
Mind you, some of them, and also some of our garden plants, like ginger
plant, Erigeron daisies and above all Wandering Willy (Tradescantia)
have also penetrated into forested areas and are smothering out the
native forest understory and some of these have recently become
proscribed weeds. In the South Island they have another problem.
In very ancient times the Maori burnt out the forest over a large area
and grasslands now prevail there. Someone, many years ago sought to
brighten the dull road verges in Central Otago by planting patches of
Russell lupins. These have done very well and make a really pretty sight
along the roads in early summmer, but unfortunately they have also
colonised the shingly beds of local rivers, where they cover over the
nesting sites of the rare and endangerd Black Stilt and the Department
of Conservation is NOT PLEASED.
In my garden I always consider most plants for which I have no current
use to be weeds. This is a flexible definition, which makes many plants
desirable sometimes, but not wanted at others. However, I also have a
few others which I cannot ever find any good use for like aformentioned
Wandering Willy, several weedy Oxalis, convolvulus and couch (twitch)
and these are always weeds for me and get dug out without mercy.
Moira
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, Lower Hutt, New Zealand
(SW Corner of the Pacific Ocean)
Cyndi Norman wrote:
Hi Cyndi
I see this interesting post of yours has been about unanswered for
nearly a month, but I have been so busy a lot of things have got out of
control. I agree that the definition of weeds you give is a most useful
and practical one. If I have it right, chckweed among young seedlings
would be a weed, but chickweed under the corn would be a groundcover and
a sourc of nectar for beneficials (right?). I must say I think twice (or
more often ) now before destroying any "weed".
I am sure you would like MY lawn which includes besides the regular
clovers and daisies lots of a small sisirynchium with mauve flowers,
patchs of Heartsease (I think you would call Johnny Jumpup), oxalis
rosea and some Parochetus. However I dig out Self Heal and Cudweeds,
because they spread into big mats and smother the grass (so I guess I
count THEM as weeds).
Moira
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, Lower Hutt, New Zealand
(SW Corner of the Pacific Ocean)
Every city & town in America has to define what they
mean by weeds as part of their own weed laws or the
first person that takes them to court ask the judge to
define weed. The judge pulls out Websters & reads "Any
plant growing where you don't want it." Defendant, do
you want that plant? Yes sir judge, I do want that
plant.
"""Dismissed""" EVERY TIME!
Each of us has a different definition of what is a
weed and that?s OK. For me weeds are invasive exotics.
Most people think their weeds are native, they?re not.
Most are exotic invasives. Only a few are native
invasives.
It isn't Natives vs. Exotics.
It is Natives vs. Invasive Exotics.
While figs in either California or Florida have became
invasive, I know of no other FOOD that any native
plant person has any problems with you growing
anywhere.
Living in north central Texas, my figS aren't
invasive. Neither is my other exotics. I love my
Japanese Maple with its 8 inch trunk. Is it an exotic,
yes? Is it invasive, not in Texas.
The earth has 350,000 known plants. Only 50 or so in
any one given area are invasive and a problem.
Over 1/3 of all synthetic herbicides sold ever year is
used to control 50 or so invasive plants in any one
area. So please, just quit planting them.
Even more than human encroachment, loss of habitat due
to invasive exotics is now the number one reason most
animals & plants are on the threaten or endangered
list. Not exotics, invasive exotics. So please learn
what is an invasive exotics in your area and stop
planting them. We have to become more informed and
responsible for our damage to this little blue rock
that we live on.
Yet even on an organic list, we fight to be able to
grow every single plant known to man, no mater how
much harm it dose. I feel that not planting 50 problem
plants out of 350,000 that aren't a problem, isn?t
asking that much.
Most of any one areas problem invasives come from our
yards & local nurseries. The rest generally sneak in
with imported animal feed.
It is not exotics that we have such a problem with.
Any one trying to imply that native plant people are
against any food is just playing make believe and is
totally wrong.
Thank you for your time,
John Bridges
President
North Central Chapter
Native Plant Society of Texas
Very well written John and my sentiments exactly. I too grow many non nativ=
es in my yard but the difference is, is that they stay put unlike my neighb=
ors White mulberry tree that reseeds in my yard yearly causing me endless h=
ours pulling the seedlings. I doubt highly my Hosta's have ever seeded to h=
is yard.
John Bridges
merica has to define what they
mean by weeds as part of their own weed laws or the
first person that takes them to court ask the judge to
define weed. The judge pulls out Websters & reads "Any
plant growing where you don't want it." Defendant, do
you want that plant? Yes sir judge, I do want that
plant.
"""Dismissed""" EVERY TIME!
Each of us has a different definition of what is a
weed and that=92s OK. For me weeds are invasive exotics.
Most people think their weeds are native, they=92re not.
Most are exotic invasives. Only a few are native
invasives.
It isn't Natives vs. Exotics.
It is Natives vs. Invasive Exotics.
While figs in either California or Florida have became
invasive, I know of no other FOOD that any native
plant person has any problems with you growing
anywhere.
Living in north central Texas, my figS aren't
invasive. Neither is my other exotics. I love my
Japanese Maple with its 8 inch trunk. Is it an exotic,
yes? Is it invasive, not in Texas.
The earth has 350,000 known plants. Only 50 or so in
any one given area are invasive and a problem.
Over 1/3 of all synthetic herbicides sold ever year is
used to control 50 or so invasive plants in any one
area. So please, just quit planting them.
Even more than human encroachment, loss of habitat due
to invasive exotics is now the number one reason most
animals & plants are on the threaten or endangered
list. Not exotics, invasive exotics. So please learn
what is an invasive exotics in your area and stop
planting them. We have to become more informed and
responsible for our damage to this little blue rock
that we live on.
Yet even on an organic list, we fight to be able to
grow every single plant known to man, no mater how
much harm it dose. I feel that not planting 50 problem
plants out of 350,000 that aren't a problem, isn=92t
asking that much.
Most of any one areas problem invasives come from our
yards & local nurseries. The rest generally sneak in
with imported animal feed.
It is not exotics that we have such a problem with.
Any one trying to imply that native plant people are
against any food is just playing make believe and is
totally wrong.
Thank you for your time,
John Bridges
President
North Central Chapter
Native Plant Society of Texas
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
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