I know nothing about keeping birds out of berries but I did want to comment
on the following:
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:19:52 -0400
From: Ted Patterson
I am asking this question for an urban commercial farmer who is growing
raspberries and blackberries on several reclaimed lots covering about
three-quarters of an acre in the inner city.
Wow. I wasn't sure there were people actually doing this. What part of
the country is he in? Does he find it to be a profitable venture? Does he
own the land?
I am curious about all this because (as I've mentioned before) I live on
prime farming land in the middle of Oakland, Calif. This area used to
support many productive orchards. My neighbor owns a narrow lot with his
house and a large, landlocked, lot that is the area behind my house, his
house, and the house on the other side of him. The back lot directly
adjoins the house lot so it all looks like a T. There is a stretch of apt
buildings (2 story) on the rear side of the lot (we see the backs of
them). I'm not sure of the size but it's probably 1/4 acre or more. It
gets full sun and has well water (in addition to city water).
The neighbor is elderly and lives there with his 60-something son. His
wife died last winter. He will probably sell in the next year or less.
The way of my street is to build apt buildings on every piece of available
land. This terrifies me. Not only will it lower the worth of my property
(making it impossible for me to move) but it will make it impossible for me
to live there (I'm allergic to all the chemicals used in construction and
in apt living).
My SO and I can't afford to buy this land ourselves (maybe some of it when
we refinance next spring, but not most of it by a long shot). Nor could we
farm it ourselves (we could do management). I think the land is perfect
for urban farming and I would love to see some *organic-only* farmer do
something with it. It's all grass and fruit trees now. It would also be
perfect for greenhouses. If I can find some interested party(ies) *before*
the neighbor comes to us saying he's leaving, then I think there will be a
chance of saving the land and keeping an apt building out of our backyard.
How feasible is urban farming when there's a mortgage involved? (this is
not an expensive part of town, but it *is* the Bay Area.) How can I find
people who might be interested (co-ops are fine with me)? The house itself
is not very livable, but it's still standing. Help?
Cyndi
_______________________________________________________________________________
Oakland, California Zone 9 USDA; Zone 16 Sunset Western Garden Guide
Disabled, chemically sensitive, wheelchair user Organic Gardening only
_______________________________________________________________________________
"There's nothing wrong with me. Maybe there's Cyndi Norman
something wrong with the universe." (ST:TNG) cyndi@consultclarity.com
http://www.consultclarity.com
_________________________ Owner of the Immune Lists http://www.best.com/~immune
Well, we've probably got similar or more expensive "prime development"
land (often same as prime ag land ) here in portland, oregon. And,
basically, I think, 99.99% of the time, you can't pay the "price' of the
land and make it as a small *or* larger grower. Of course, my view is
tinged by knowing a fair amount of the local area farmers being a grower
of sorts myself and seeing just how many small farmers are uh, not, making
it....when 'making it' refers to $$$ which certainly isn't the major way I
gauge my og cut flowers...If I did I'd be depressed all the time. Instead,
I have found creative ways to look at what I do, which is really just one
big obsessive love :-)
I suppose I count as an "urban" grower/gardener. I live in inner city
portland and grow my food there (just under 1/4 acre) I also start
starts and harden them off and grow a few things for my og flower
business, aka expensive hobby :-) (I take it back not too expensive
compared...) I grow the flowers on an acquaintances' 1/2 acre. They live
approx 12 miles from me in what I think of as the burbs but is actually
quite close in in this sprawling metropolis. (They're in a little pocket
of 1-3 acre places surrounded by tighter housing.) I use a small portion
of their yard for very little in return, no money, just flowers, vegies,
garden strolls, a few perennial starts or bulbs, some compost. Their
generousity is astounding. I mean in return they don't have to mow
their lawn, get an increase in animal life and a most beautiful
sight...flower gardens are eye candy, but really our society doesn't
encourage that sort of an outlook. The business is fun, keeps me busy,
*sometimes* (As in that blue moon thing :-) makes more money than I think
it would but at this early stage all that money goes into paying for some
start-up costs. Even as those costs go down, at the size I am I see no
chance in the near future that it will suddenly support me. I have another
(night) job and am always scrounging up odd jobs....and I have a partner
who makes way more money.....I think there is a sort of embarrassment
for those who do small farming but, I know many many cases where it is
someone else's money ( a working partner, an inheritance, a wealthy and
interested and supportive benefactor/relative) who floats the farming
venture. Or, the person has put in their time at some high-paying job and
now... NO room for shame, folks should be upfront about it, This
frankness just might help convince people how un-small farm friendly the
usa is...just might....
I've really been blessed to try doing this on a very small-scale. I've
always thought that I might like to work with plants for a living in one
capacity or another (just not say commercial landscaping...unless it was
way out there sustainable landscaping :-) I know I didn't want to "buy the
farm" (couldn't anyhow :-) and just wanted a way to get my feet wet and
see what would happen next, what path would open up next...really I just
wanted a bigger space for my growing family of plants :-) Well, my feet
are very wet and it's been fun but it hasn't been "financially rewarding".
Well, that's me.
I know lots of people who do urban growing in the Portland area. I can ask
them if they'd be willing to talk to you but I don't feel comfortable
sharing their experiences without their consent.
Suffice it to say that of all the many og growers/farmers I have known in
various areas of oregon and central New York, making a living at it, when
we're talking $, doesn't happen immediately, often or... And, when trying
it in an urban setting things can be even tougher.
Consider within city limits or within urban sprawl in general folks are
expecting prices (buying or leasing) in keeping with non-ag business. The
actual price per acre for leasing of ag land is astronomically cheaper
because, well, surprise surprise, farmers whether og or not, usually
aren't making it like say CEO's of lucrative software companies :-)
That is, if one of your start-up costs is the cost of some land priced at
non-ag rates, whoo weee you're going to have to have another job.
With my cut flowers I actually have a bonus for being in the city. Drip
irrigation is my fave method of watering and with the flowers it's pretty
useful in keeping them saleable (esp. with our dry spell this year). Being
on city water means I don't need a fancy filtration system which is
expensive and often you still need to replace your lines more frequently
which is wasteful and....But in general the pressures in an urban setting
do make it hard....
BTW, I think growing flowers organically is the cat's pajamas and I have
more fun than I ever could growing annual vegies for market...I'd love to
explain but that would be a digression maybe in some other post....
Plus, I am totally into small as beautiful and the wave of the future but
really given the current ag/market structure I think there is only so much
you can do to make money on 1/4 acre (not withstanding Andy Lee's wonder
stories see biblio at end of post). I think my friends with the 2 acre
CSA have about the size where you might see yourself starting to make
close to a living (after several grueling start-up years) in an urban
setting in the usa....
One nice thing for me about being small, I never have to address the labor
issues which are really pressing and depressing in both conventional and
og agriculture. As I jokingly say to my friends, you can be certain that
the only labor I exploit (directly of course, indirectly is another matter
altogether) is my own. Yeah, I'm taking the easy way out, 'cept there is
nothing easy about working your butt off :-) If I ever do grow a bit those
issues will raise their ugly heads big time....
That said there are wonderful non-business things that can be done with
"spare city lots". Get some rich business (around here in pdx we've
currently got plenty...the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep
getting...) to fund a non-profit to buy that lot and do something
exciting: (a) community garden (b) youth education garden (we have one of
those just around the corner on a large spare lot that was sone women's
dream I think and she just did it...I get the feeling the land is on loan
but....I don't know) (c) Organic show garden (d)????? That way no one but
those who can afford it are footing the bill.... Of course, this all
depends on your neighbor wanting this to stay green.... There are farmers
here who crumple to pressure and sell to developers and there are those
who struggle to find noble, farm-oriented futures for their farm land when
they pass on to a new life.... I don't blame the farmers who crumple I've
a taste of the pressures and they're bad but I hate HATE HATE what I see
happening here in the new SF (San Fran) so much that I wish every day for
more retiring farmers to hook their land up with land trusts/neophyte
wanna be farmers/ or even the audobon society, for goodness sakes.....
Here is one other strong feeling I have about urban greenery: So often
people say that we have to have denser housing. Perhaps, perhaps not. I
take the Socratic out. But, even should it be true, that denser housing
should not come at the expense of *only* some. So often it is lower income
city folks who are asked to give up green space, garden space, potential
food for the stomach and soul space while the middle classes and above
continue to sprawl and sprawl. Now, if we all lived in villages or little
communities surrounded by accessible green spaces...But we don't and so
often this push for denser housing in the usa ends up falling on the
shoulders of those who, like all, if not more so, could benefit from
having some accessible garden space and just plain green space. So, I
urge people to be really careful in crafting/endorsing denser housing
plans...Are they really going to have positive effect or are they going to
result in....I want to know that should the what I believe to be coming
for the usa (already there for lots of folks even many in the usa) food
emergency arrive we ALL have the ability to start growing some things for
ourselves to eat...Part of the ability is having access to land....Now, I
could go on about this topic so dear to my heart but well, enough said....
Wow, I really care about this topic and I am ever so opionated...sorry for
the rambling post,
eliza
If you're curious about this getting started thing (lots of urban
semi-urban examples) try "backyard market gardening" by Andy Lee or "Metro
Farm" (or something like that by????)
