I'm hoping this was simply overlooked, and that there is someone out =
there
who has a good answer!
Pat
Behalf
Of Patricia Ruggiero
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:36 PM
To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Pruning blackberries
Usually the blackberry canes don't show signs of budding out until late =
Feb
or early March, the latter time being when I prune them. This year =
they're
budding out *now*. Should I prune them now? Would pruning now harm =
them? I
can't see that it would make their prospects any worse: if there's more
heavy frost the buds will get zapped whether I prune or not, right? Is
their harm in waiting, in that the berries will be fewer and smaller if =
I
don't prune now?
Pat
--0-215389317-1108003636=:19865
Pat, I didn't respond because any canes that bore fruit this year get cut down to the ground and the new canes that developed this year will bear next years fruit. I have tornless, but that is how I have always done it. Cheers, Sue
So, that way, I don't even think about injuring the plant with pruning as I am only cutting out the spent canes.
Patricia Ruggiero
I'm hoping this was simply overlooked, and that there is someone out there
who has a good answer!
Pat
Of Patricia Ruggiero
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:36 PM
To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Pruning blackberries
Usually the blackberry canes don't show signs of budding out until late Feb
or early March, the latter time being when I prune them. This year they're
budding out *now*. Should I prune them now? Would pruning now harm them? I
can't see that it would make their prospects any worse: if there's more
heavy frost the buds will get zapped whether I prune or not, right? Is
their harm in waiting, in that the berries will be fewer and smaller if I
don't prune now?
Pat
--0-215389317-1108003636=:19865Pat, I didn't respond because any canes that bore fruit this year get cut down to the ground and the new canes that developed this year will bear next years fruit. I have tornless, but that is how I have always done it. Cheers, SueSo, that way, I don't even think about injuring the plant with pruning as I am only cutting out the spent canes.
Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop@EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:I'm hoping this was simply overlooked, and that there is someone out there
who has a good answer!
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Organic Gardening Discussion List [mailto:OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU] On Behalf
Of Patricia Ruggiero
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:36 PM
To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Pruning blackberries
Usually the blackberry canes don't show signs of budding out until late Feb
or early March, the latter time being when I prune them. This year they're
budding out *now*. Should I prune them now? Would pruning now harm them? I
can't see that it would make their prospects any worse: if there's more
heavy frost the buds will get zapped whether I prune or not, right? Is
their harm in waiting, in that the berries will be fewer and smaller if I
don't prune now?
Pat
--0-215389317-1108003636=:19865--
Hello Pat,
I think you should wait on pruning until you see whether significant frost
damage occurs to the buds canes... this is my general rule for peaches,
apricots and other tree fruits that are susceptible to late frosts... don't
prune until you see what Mother Nature has pruned for you...
Joel
BTW Here are a couple links to NCSU publications on blackberries:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/pdf/ag-401.pdf
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-8206.html
I'm hoping this was simply overlooked, and that there is someone out there
who has a good answer!
Pat
Of Patricia Ruggiero
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:36 PM
To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Pruning blackberries
Usually the blackberry canes don't show signs of budding out until late Feb
or early March, the latter time being when I prune them. This year they're
budding out *now*. Should I prune them now? Would pruning now harm them? I
can't see that it would make their prospects any worse: if there's more
heavy frost the buds will get zapped whether I prune or not, right? Is
their harm in waiting, in that the berries will be fewer and smaller if I
don't prune now?
Pat
Thanks, Joel.
Pat
Sue wrote:
"Pat, I didn't respond because any canes that bore fruit this year get =
cut
down to the ground and the new canes that developed this year will bear =
next
years fruit. I have tornless, but that is how I have always done it."
Mine are wild, with killer thorns. The canes that came up last year =
will
bear fruit later this summer. The canes are very long, easily 6-8', and =
the
laterals can reach 3'. If I were on top of things, I would top the =
growing
canes to 3-4' during the growing season (late summer), but I never am, =
and
so must cut the main branch back to 4' in early March. The fruit is =
borne
on the laterals. I cut them back to 12" at this time, also.
I could cut the spent canes down at the end of each summer, but of =
course I
never do that, either. So, that's another job for early March. =
Basically,
all maintenance on this stand takes place at the same time.
I don't like seeing them budding out 3-4 weeks early. I hope we don't =
get a
severe enough frost to kill them.
Pat
Gee, Pat, why do you want to prune the blackberries? All I do, and I wait until spring because I hate cold, is remove the old canes. And that is just for sightliness, because in a year or two they would die down, I think.
Of course I have this brand of blackberries, Rubus armenica, that can cover a house! It is one super blackberry and completely natural, no breeding involved (birds brought it to Denmark from Caucasus). The berries are huge, the stems huge, the thorns huge and horrible. But I love being scratched when I pick these luscious blackberries.
Carol
If those tips arch to the soil, they'll root and grow new canes, so you'll
have a true thicket, won't you? Margaret L
Mine are wild, with killer thorns. The canes that came up last year will
bear fruit later this summer. The canes are very long, easily 6-8', and the
laterals can reach 3'. If I were on top of things, I would top the growing
canes to 3-4' during the growing season (late summer), but I never am, and
so must cut the main branch back to 4' in early March. The fruit is borne
on the laterals. I cut them back to 12" at this time, also.
Pat
> If those tips arch to the soil, they'll root and grow new
> canes, so you'll have a true thicket, won't you? Margaret L
That seems not to happen with these. The canes are so thick and strong =
that
they continue upright for quite some distance before beginning to arch =
back
toward the ground, by which time (late winter) I'm in there with leather
gloves and pruners.
The canes of the more slender black raspberry more readily strike root.
Pat
--0-1291155511-1108068541=:7616
> The canes of the more slender black raspberry more readily strike root.<
My red raspberry have runners underground that start new plants. I dig them up and move them where I want them. At least the raspberry plants are more managable for me. Not as huge as the blackberry. But then again, my blackberries were planted 25 years ago. I sure do like the thornless though, just every once in a while one roots and I get a thorny cane that I have to cut down to the ground. No matter how we handle it, I guess what works for you is what is right for you. Cheers, Sue
Plant Spirit Herbals in No. Calif.
Patricia Ruggiero
> If those tips arch to the soil, they'll root and grow new
> canes, so you'll have a true thicket, won't you? Margaret L
That seems not to happen with these. The canes are so thick and strong that
they continue upright for quite some distance before beginning to arch back
toward the ground, by which time (late winter) I'm in there with leather
gloves and pruners.
The canes of the more slender black raspberry more readily strike root.
Pat
--0-1291155511-1108068541=:7616>The canes of the more slender black raspberry more readily strike root.<My red raspberry have runners underground that start new plants. I dig them up and move them where I want them. At least the raspberry plants are more managable for me. Not as huge as the blackberry. But then again, my blackberries were planted 25 years ago. I sure do like the thornless though, just every once in a while one roots and I get a thorny cane that I have to cut down to the ground. No matter how we handle it, I guess what works for you is what is right for you. Cheers, SuePlant Spirit Herbals in No. Calif.
Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop@EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:> If those tips arch to the soil, they'll root and grow new
> canes, so you'll have a true thicket, won't you? Margaret L
That seems not to happen with these. The canes are so thick and strong that
they continue upright for quite some distance before beginning to arch back
toward the ground, by which time (late winter) I'm in there with leather
gloves and pruners.
The canes of the more slender black raspberry more readily strike root.
Pat
--0-1291155511-1108068541=:7616--
Greetings from "up north"-Shen Valley-wise.
Patricia Ruggiero wrote:
When I have nipped back the growing tip at blossom time, the laterals
grow to 6' or more. I hate to cut back all of that growth.
The fruit is borne
> on the laterals. I cut them back to 12" at this time, also.
Except for the laterals within two feet of the ground. Those I cut
further, with the bottom ones back to one bud.
Do you know if blackberries (mine are mostly of the thornless variety)
are like grapes in having some buds (like 3 through 7) more fruitful
than others?
> I could cut the spent canes down at the end of each summer, but of course I
> never do that, either. So, that's another job for early March. Basically,
> all maintenance on this stand takes place at the same time.
This year I am retired and did find time to cut back some of the spent
canes late summer early fall. Will those berries bear better?
> I don't like seeing them budding out 3-4 weeks early. I hope we don't get a
> severe enough frost to kill them.
There are "back-up" buds, I believe. Anybody know about that?
Two years ago I planted some Kiowa. Huge fruit, huge taste, huge and
viscious thorns. I guess it is worth it.
Dave
zone 6/7 at 1100 feet elevation
--
Julia/David Alleman
1245 Upland
Harrisonburg, VA 22802
540/433-4008
Dave wrote:
> Greetings from "up north"-Shen Valley-wise.
What's the weather like in the Valley these days? (Actually I think of the
Valley as being "out west.")
> When I have nipped back the growing tip at blossom time, the
> laterals grow to 6' or more. I hate to cut back all of that growth.
My experience with these wild ones is that the berries I get on the
shortened laterals are large (3/4" - 1"), sweet, and very juicy.
Blackberries from wild canes growing elsewhere on the property, and not
pruned, are noticeably more in number but smaller, drier, and less sweet
than the wild berries from my managed stand. I assume you are growing some
cultivated variety? Perhaps the cultural requirements are different, but I
would guess not, based on what I've learned on this list about having to
thin tree fruits.
> Do you know if blackberries (mine are mostly of the thornless
> variety) are like grapes in having some buds (like 3 through
> 7) more fruitful than others?
No, I don't, but I will try to be attentive to that possibility this year.
From which end of the branch do you start counting?
> This year I am retired and did find time to cut back some of
> the spent canes late summer early fall. Will those berries
> bear better?
As I understand it, the main reason for removing spent canes as soon as
possible is to reduce the spread of disease that might possibly have
infected the canes during their bearing season and then spread to the new,
growing canes. Other than that, I don't think their presence in the stand
much affects the growing canes. The dead canes aren't competing with the
new canes for moisture and nutrients; in fact, if allowed to rot in place,
they return some nutrients to the soil. The reason I remove them when I'm
doing the spring pruning of the new canes is to get them the &*#@^&* out of
the way!
> There are "back-up" buds, I believe. Anybody know about that?
I don't know, but it sure is a comforting thought....
> Two years ago I planted some Kiowa. Huge fruit, huge taste,
> huge and viscious thorns. I guess it is worth it.
Yup. That's the way I feel about my wild ones with their large thorns.
Pat
Piedmont area, zone 7
Dave, I remembered another reason for removing the spent canes -- to
increase air circulation in the stand.
Pat
Carol wrote:
> I cannot at this moment tell you which kind of cane noses
> along the soil and makes a new plant. I do believe it is the
> ones that are new this year and don't bear fruit.
The living canes, in either year, if left unpruned.
Blackberry canes are the "square" ones.
Pat
If your blackberries are very large, you also may have Rubus armenica. Birds fly all over, don't they?
Carol
Hi Dave,
Blackberries sort of have two kinds of canes every year. One is the ones that didn't give you any berries last year, but will this year. The other is the new canes, which won't give you any berries this year, but will next year.
For this reason, I wouldn't dare prune! I do remove the old canes (the ones that bore fruit in 2004) as soon as it gets nice out, nice being around 76F for someone like me! By spring they are completely dead, beige coloured.
I put a huge bunch of them in the compost heap last year and they didn't decompose the least bit! Better to burn them in the wood stove.
I cannot at this moment tell you which kind of cane noses along the soil and makes a new plant. I do believe it is the ones that are new this year and don't bear fruit.
There is also a difference in feeling the canes, in between the thorns. One kind is square. Forget just now which cane is square, but it's easy to figure it out. This may not apply to your blackberries, though, as mine are with killer thorns.
Carol
--=====================_2323851==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 21:49 10-02-2005, Sue Jennings wrote: >>The canes of the more slender black raspberry more readily strike root.My red raspberry have runners underground that start new plants. I dig them up and move them where I want them. At least the raspberry plants are more managable for me. Not as huge as the blackberry. But then again, my blackberries were planted 25 years ago. I sure do like the thornless though, just every once in a while one roots and I get a thorny cane that I have to cut down to the ground. No matter how we handle it, I guess what works for you is what is right for you. Cheers, Sue >Plant Spirit Herbals in No. Calif. > When I cut my blackberry plants, because no one can dig them up, they also make runners underground for new plants. Quite deep down,too. Carol --=====================_2323851==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 21:49 10-02-2005, Sue Jennings wrote:
The canes of the more slender black raspberry more readily strike root.
My red raspberry have runners underground that start new plants. I dig them up and move them where I want them. At least the raspberry plants are more managable for me. Not as huge as the blackberry. But then again, my blackberries were planted 25 years ago. I sure do like the thornless though, just every once in a while one roots and I get a thorny cane that I have to cut down to the ground. No matter how we handle it, I guess what works for you is what is right for you. Cheers, Sue
Plant Spirit Herbals in No. Calif.
When I cut my blackberry plants, because no one can dig them up, they also make runners underground for new plants. Quite deep down,too.
Carol --=====================_2323851==.ALT--
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_14AC_01C51014.71370A30
Carol, if you burn canes and such in your woodstove, no wonder you get =
chimney fires. This isn't recommended. Junk wood like this creates =
creosote in the chimney.
Lee Ann
I put a huge bunch of them in the compost heap last year and they didn't =
decompose the least bit! Better to burn them in the wood stove.
Carol
------=_NextPart_000_14AC_01C51014.71370A30
Yes, but on my 2 kinds of canes, one is much more square than the other. It may be only on Rubus armenica that you can tell.
I can get the book from the library again. It is about Danish blackberries!
Carol
jalleman wrote:
> Do you know if blackberries (mine are mostly of the thornless
> variety) are like grapes in having some buds (like 3 through 7) more
> fruitful than others?
Hi Dave
I have never before heard of this interesting concept, where did you get
the information? I intend to look over my grapevine (which in our
southern summer now has half grown fruit) and see whch nodes have
produced the fruiting branches. The standard method of winter spur
pruning does anyway remove all but the two lowest buds on each so as to
prevent them getting ever longer and more straggly each season and I
wonder if this is actually not such a good idea.
> This year I am retired and did find time to cut back some of the
> spent canes late summer early fall. Will those berries bear better?
With red raspberries (the only Rubus I grow) it certainly seems to be
important. If you leave the old canes on, the clumps become so crowded
that the new canes may become distorted as they struggles to find the
space to grow, and I am sure the crowded clumps are more likely to
contract diseases. And of course the weak old canes, already near to
death, are very likely to attract diseases and pests. I do not think
though they have much effect on the supply of nutrients available for
the new canes, as they do not nomally grow any more once the fruit has
all been picked, but just gradually fade away.
> I don't like seeing them budding out 3-4 weeks early. I hope we
> don't get a severe enough frost to kill them.
> There are "back-up" buds, I believe. Anybody know about that?
Many members of the rose family (to which the Rubus group belongs)
certainly have them. Roses themselves for instance usually seem to have
two auxillary smaller side buds with each main one and I would not be
surprised if the blackberries do also. After all, in nature unexpected
weather may happen any year and no doubt over the ages they have adapted
to coping with this possibility. In any case even if the buds _are_
showing signs of some early activity they may not actually finish their
opening until nearer the proper date.
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan,
Wainuiomata, North Island, NZ.
Want to know all about NZ? See the world's first National On-line
Encyclopedia!
--0-2025691279-1108177314=:75399
I was thinking the same thing. That is a no no! Sue
Lee Ann Reiners
Lee Ann
I put a huge bunch of them in the compost heap last year and they didn't decompose the least bit! Better to burn them in the wood stove.
Carol
--0-2025691279-1108177314=:75399I was thinking the same thing. That is a no no! Sue
Lee Ann Reiners <reiners@SURFERIE.NET> wrote:Carol, if you burn canes and such in your woodstove, no wonder you get chimney fires. This isn't recommended. Junk wood like this creates creosote in the chimney.Lee Ann ----- Original Message -----
I put a huge bunch of them in the compost heap last year and they didn't decompose the least bit! Better to burn them in the wood stove.
Carol
--0-2025691279-1108177314=:75399--
--=====================_264370==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 14:34 11-02-2005, Lee Ann Reiners wrote: >Carol, if you burn canes and such in your woodstove, no wonder you get chimney fires. This isn't recommended. Junk wood like this creates creosote in the chimney. >Lee Ann > I'm sure you're right on that! I have used only a little bit to start a fire with, and it is very good at that. Carol --=====================_264370==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 14:34 11-02-2005, Lee Ann Reiners wrote:
Carol, if you burn canes and such in your woodstove, no wonder you get chimney fires. This isn't recommended. Junk wood like this creates creosote in the chimney.
Lee Ann
I'm sure you're right on that! I have used only a little bit to start a fire with, and it is very good at that.
Carol --=====================_264370==.ALT--
You mean there is a particular cultivar that grows those loucious
thumb sized berries I have only seen a few times? Most of the ones I
see are probably wild but even so they are more like your thumbnail
not the whole thing. I would love to have some of those right now,
but where would I put them. And more so where do I get the energy
and ambition to grow them.
Jim wrote:
I'm not certain to whom you were addressing these remarks, but I'll say,
Jim, that my wild, pruned blackberry canes produce berries that are 3/4" to
1" in size, sweet and juicy.
Couldn't you identify some clusters of canes growing at woods' edge, that
would be easy to prune in March and easy to access at fruiting time?
Pat
Well, I was lucky when Bargyla sent me those amaryllis side bulbs and they got through customs. Perhaps a small plant or two would make it too. I could easily wash off all the dirt and wrap them up.
Send me your address and when it thaws again (winter struck today!) I will go out and look for new plants. There are always several in the spring.
Carol
That's nice that your wild blackberries are large. Ours are tiny, even in sunshine. Of course the one I have is also "wild" since birds brought it to Denmark, but you find it mostly in gardens.
Carol
I don't remember seeing blackberries on our land. There are a few
raspberry scattered around. I will look a little harder and see if
there are any blackberries. If there are I am sure they would be
small fruited or I would have noticed them. If I can fid any with
good size fruit I will certainly try them.
Just to make sure I am reading right, one digs up as much of one
plant as one could get. I don't think I have seen grafting
mentioned.
Jim wrote:
> If I can fid any with good size fruit I will certainly
> try them.
They probably won't have good-sized fruit; you have to prune them to get
larger berries.
> Just to make sure I am reading right, one digs up as
> much of one plant as one could get. I don't think I have
> seen grafting mentioned.
No, no grafting. Just dig up the plants as you say.
Pat
