Has anyone here used biodynamic mixtures (Steiner's BD500-507) in his/her
garden? I'm especially interested in the minute homeopathic doses of
chamomile, yarrow, valarian flowers, nettle, oak bark, dandelian flowers
that are added to the compost heap. I've seen some research that these
piles composts faster, but I'm skeptical since such small amounts are used
(about 1 teaspoon per 7-10 ton pile).
Also, does anyone use the above herbs as an herb tea supplement in ordinary
(non-homeopathic) amounts?
jk
Surely, Jonathan, I enjoy a cup of chamomile tea once in awhile, although it
didn't seem to help me sleep any better, or I would be drinking it more
often. Hmm, think I'll go have a cup now. :- D
I'm not a believer in things that don't make sense to my scientific side,
and homeopathy is one of those things. Chemically insignificant doses are
basically placebos. I don't think the compost would have a placebo effect,
having no brain to psych out and convince itself to do better, but the
compost **creator** might. And, if anyone is going to use homeopathy on
their compost pile, they are probably going to be tending to it a bit more
than I tend to my cold compost piles that get harvested every other year. I
suppose that the person carefully tending a pile might see some faster
results than my lazy method would allow, and therefore the methods would
work splendidly. :-)
> Also, does anyone use the above herbs as an herb tea supplement in ordinary
> (non-homeopathic) amounts?
I've used chamomile tea on my seedlings. Moira was the one who turned me on
to that use. It totally ended my damping off problems in the greenhouse.
Thanks, Moira!!! :-)
Gloria
Organically Gardening in Illinois, USDA Zone 5B
http://HiddenOaksFarm.homestead.com/index.html
Hi Jonathan,
we started using biodynamic preparations about half a year ago, last spring
(in New Zealand). We have always been organic, and being down to earth
people, felt rather skeptical about biodynamics, it sounded so weird -
ground up crystals in a red stags bladder ??? or cowmanure packed in a
cowhorn a buried for a year??? - it took us a while to get over our
prejudices and then it seemed a natural extension of what we were already
doing.
And, even in very small quantaties, one portion of prep 500 per acre for
example, it had an amazing effect, though it might sound strange it seemed
like some energy or light shifted on our property and even though we have
been using it only for a short time we have had an excellent growing year so
far.
The amount you use in compost is one set of preps. (502/503/504/505/506/507)
per five cubic metres of compost. We have indeed found that the compost
heats up faster and is ready sooner and smells better. In liquid manures you
use 1 set of preps per 200 ltrs.
Linda Kerr
Woody Hollow Organic Gardens, Nuhaka, New Zealand
Date: Saturday, 17 February 2001 12:49
Subject: biodynamic
> Has anyone here used biodynamic mixtures (Steiner's BD500-507) in his/her
> garden? I'm especially interested in the minute homeopathic doses of
> chamomile, yarrow, valarian flowers, nettle, oak bark, dandelian flowers
> that are added to the compost heap. I've seen some research that these
> piles composts faster, but I'm skeptical since such small amounts are
used
> (about 1 teaspoon per 7-10 ton pile).
Yep
> I'm not a believer in things that don't make sense to my scientific side,
> and homeopathy is one of those things.
Your scientific side would no doubt sit up and take notice if it tried a few
of these things and saw the results.
There is a very human tendency to think that we know it all (despite the
frequent historical evidence to the contrary), and anything outside the
current scientific explanation is vigorously ignored.
The most current scientific explanations (multi dimensional, superstrings,
chaos, quantum...) are beginning to build a basis for understanding
energetic theories (homeopathic, biodynamic, radionic...).
But the proof is in the results. Try them with an open mind and I
*guarantee* your horizons will be broadened.
S.
I have and will again from now on as I have a supplier who will send them C.O.D. Don't use them for herb tea as I'm a coffee drinker.
Biodynamic growers not only put the preps in their compost pile, they also sprinkle them on the garden during the growing season. For instance, last year was a bad year for that late blight which ruined my tomatoes (for the first time in my life). I should have used 501, obviously - that's the silica prep.
Carol
Gloria wrote:
Hi I have no knowledge of homeopathy in horticulture or agriculture, but
I do recall reading of a skeptical experiment where a preparation used
on humans apparently did what it was claimed to even though it was so
dilute no sign of the original material, not so much as a single
identifiable molecule, could any longer be detected.
How true this account was however I cannot say.
Gloria
Glad it worked. Since using a compost-based mix I haven't had any
damping off to try it on myself
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata (near Wellington, capital city of New Zealand)
Yes, that was the idea--dilute to nothingness, and still expect results.
Also in the Primer, pg380, is mention of Dr.Weltzien of Germanysho found good
results from highly diluted product. There is also the report from a Frenchman,
but I can't recall his name. Same idea, great dilution. Was it Chabusson?
Apparently the idea is that the product leaves some kind of a memory pattern, so
to speak.
Tony & Moira Ryan wrote:
Yes - a memory pattern which is stronger than the original - just like
homeopathic preprations. BioDynamics is homeopathy for the land.
--
Robert Farr
(540) 668-7160
Check out http://www.thechileman.com
for Hot Sauces, Salsas, Mustards & More!
This really hurts, Robert! Biodynamics is MUCH MORE and MUCH OTHER
than homeopathy for the land! (In fact, buddy, it is strongly
debateable that in any aspect that it is other than 'homeopathic
like')
A long time member of BD Now!, the biodynamic food and farming
discussion group, DAVE ROBISON has created a pretty nice introduction
to Biodynamics website at http://www.oregonbd.org/Class/class.htm
I think that EVERYONE may benefit from reading through the lessons on
Biodynamics that Dave has put up there. (Thanks, Dave!)
You can join BD Now! to ask questions about Dave's page by sending me
a request to subscribe you.
Thanks
Allan Balliett
Gardening for the Future
'Between the Hills,' Purcellville, VA
Mailing Address:
POB 3047
Shepherdstown, WV, 25443
(540)668-6165
(815)550-6067 EFax
allan@gardeningforthefuture.com
www.gardeningforthefuture.com
Subject: Re: biodynamic
I hereby request that you subscribe me to this list: Ann B. Mullikin
gypsy@francomm.com
I have been an organic gardening for a LONG time and am here to learn new
things. This sound interesting.
Thanks. Do you need any more info from me to get me subscribed?
ann
> Yes - a memory pattern which is stronger than the original - just like
> homeopathic preprations. BioDynamics is homeopathy for the land.
Magic in other words. I have no problem with magic. I believe that
sympathetic magic works. I have a problem with dressing up magic
as science. I have tried homeopathy for myself and for my children
and it has not worked. I believe it does not work for me because I
don't believe in it. If belief is required for something to work, it is, in
my opinion, a form of religion or magic. I do not personally believe
magic to be lower or higher on the hierarchy of how to make sense
of the world than magic. I just really can't stand either dressing
themselves up in each other's clothes.
sph
Sandra P. Hoffman
ghidra@magma.ca
http://www.flora.org/sandra/
Eastern Ontario, Canada. USDA zone 4
Sandra:
I don't believe homeopathy to be magic. As someone who healed his back
after severely slipping a disk - doctors recommended surgery; I took a
homeopathic preparation of Arnica - I can tell you it works.
Unbelieveably well, in fact.
I had no prior "belief" in it. I just took my meds -
--
Robert Farr
(540) 668-7160
Check out http://www.thechileman.com
for Hot Sauces, Salsas, Mustards & More!
Ann,
To subscribe send an e-mail to
unimportant. The text should be:
subscribe ogl gypsy@francomm.com
No sig line because you are sending to a dumb machine that would get
confused:>)
"Ann B. Mullikin" wrote:
--
Jim allAn There is space in the guest book where you
Zone 5 can leave a comment about any particular
New York U.S.A. photo. You need not leave your real name or
200+ miles NW. of E-mail.
New York city
Click or copy/paste
to see my garden.
Homeopathy actually works best on children and animals (anyone with a
'clean slate,' vibrationally) It does NOT require belief. The
effectiveness of arnica is what converted me to homeopathy: I didn't
believe in homeopathy and I 'knew' that it couldn't possibly work.
Boy, did arnica make a 'believer' out of me!!
Later
I'll subscribe you ann. No problem. I want to forwarn you that BD
Now! is primarily a practitioner's list. "Roast Chicken" won't "fly
into your mouth," you're going to have to raise the questions you'd
like answered. The list is loud, but essentially sensitive to the
needs of beginners. It would really help you to read the introduction
to biodynamics that I posted earlier. (I posted the URL to the site.)
Thanks for your openess.
-Allan
Gloria, I didn't catch the phrase "minute homeopathic doses of" the first time I read your mail.
When you buy the preps they are not diluted at all. They look like soil and come in small plastic bags (in Denmark). These preps you put in the compost heap (without the plastic bags of course).
In the summer though, if you have bought another set of preps, you mix each in something like 10 liters of water. You get it going one way until there is a hole in the pail, then reverse, etc. etc. for one hour. Then you can spray or just use a whitewash brush, if you happen to have one (I do!).
This is not homeopathic though.
Some biodynamic farmers use potentising of preps, which IS homeopathy, but this is not main-line biodynamics (which doesn't mean that it isn't a good thing!) Others use even more far-out methods to get the preps to the soil and the atmosphere, which also work fine.
Carol
At 09:57 AM 2/24/01 -0500, Allan wrote:
Yes - a memory pattern which is stronger than the original - just like
homeopathic preprations. BioDynamics is homeopathy for the land.
This really hurts, Robert! Biodynamics is MUCH MORE and MUCH OTHER
than homeopathy for the land! (In fact, buddy, it is strongly
debateable that in any aspect that it is other than 'homeopathic
like')
Of course you're right, Allan, that biodynamics is not just homeopathy for the land, as one poster suggested. First of all, it involves a set of somewhat standard organic gardening beliefs and also some spiritual beliefs about agriculture beyond the preparations. Secondly, the preparations themselves are not strictly homeopathic. For one thing, they are not potentized.
However, BD preparations are used in very minute quantites--perhaps the equivalent of 3x?--after extensive stirring. So they're similar to homeopathy in the broad sense: not enough chemical there to make a difference in ordinary scientific understanding.
jk
Where do you find the formulations for these homeopathic preps?
> Of course you're right, Allan, that biodynamics is not just "homeopathy
for the land," as one poster suggested. First of all, it involves a set of
somewhat standard organic gardening beliefs and also some spiritual beliefs
about agriculture beyond the preparations. Secondly, the preparations
themselves are not strictly homeopathic. For one thing, they are not
potentized.
I believe the stirring process is an effective potentisation, merely a
different method to the one originated by Hahnemann
> However, BD preparations are used in very minute quantites--perhaps the
equivalent of 3x?--after extensive stirring. So they're similar to
homeopathy in the broad sense: not enough chemical there to make a
difference in ordinary scientific understanding.
not only that, the stirred prep is often diluted further for spraying. They
both work on similar principles; waters ability to take on an 'essence' or
'energetic charge'
from the material it has been in contact with - especially it seems, when it
is potentised.
S.
> Where do you find the formulations for these homeopathic preps?
On Rudolf Steiner's Agricultural Lectures of 1924, I think.
Carol
