Hope someone can answer this question about sulfur and respond to her
directly as well as to OGL (she is not on this list)???
Sulphur is a necessary nutrient for plants, being a vital part of certain
of the amino acids that make up the proteins. It has been supplied in
excess in many places by acid rain and not being lacking, hasn't entered
our awareness to the same extent as some other nutrients. I understand
with the clean up of acid rain, some places are beginning to realize that
some sulphur is necessary in fertilizers. I'm afraid I do not have any
information on what constitutes an excess of Sulphur, especially in the
elemental form, or what the effects of such an excess would be.
William
whgames@pan.uzulu.ac.za
I see lots of comments on this subject broached originally from Vancover
about aerial spaying of something and thinking this over we need to
formulate a plan for all to use if this occurs in our area.
The use of aerial spraying is economic or to use the current euphemism " cost
effectiveness " because its easier to cover large areas with a low cost
product than to hire people to spend lots of time traveling to apply this
product where its needed. If the product in question is a Bt type for use
against mosquitoe larvae, its proper and only place is on ponds where the
larvae are. Spraying land where they don't develop is useless unless there
are some people that don't clean their bird baths often enough to keep the
larvae in check. Michigan, to check gypsy moths, has sprayed selected areas
with a Bt for these and it does appear to be effective although we are
finding that there is now a parasite for gypsy moths that is keeping them in
check. In this case it was necessary to spray large areas because of the
location of this pest.
Would indiscriminate application cause other pests that are affected by other
strains of Bt to develop immunity to that strain? We know that indiscriminate
use of any product is not good and has most times caused more problems than
solved. I wouild refer many of you youngsters who may not have read it to
read Rachel Carson's ' Silent Spring " .
What do others think?
Kimm Miller
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5E5B.5F5A4E80
I live in the San Fernando Valley area of So. California. Several years =
ago, large areas of the valley were selected for aerial spraying of =
Malathion to eliminate the Med Fly which was supposedly a threat to the =
growers who were many miles away from this heavily populated residential =
area. Not only were we sprayed once, but several times over many weeks. =
People were warned by TV and radio messages when spraying was =
scheduled so they could remain indoors and cover their cars with plastic =
because it ate through the paint. Yet we were told that the spray was =
perfectly harmless.
Many residents protested, had petitions signed, pleaded with the Mayor, =
and the spraying went on. We were told it was for our own good.
Many people developed strange illnesses and cases of asthma and =
allergies were rampant. People had flu like symptoms that persisted for =
months. Even though I live in the foothills and was out of the spraying =
pattern by a few miles, I noticed that there were hardly any Honeybees =
and other flying insects that summer for pollinazation or for the next =
couple of years. I think the spraying also affected the bird population =
which has now returned. And I see more large black bees that live =
alone in holes drilled in wood or in leaf mulch. We call them Carpenter =
Bees and they are tireless workers in the garden. They seem to have =
taken over for the missing Honeybees.
The irony is that after all that spraying, the Med Fly was not =
eradicated.
Anne Le May
I see lots of comments on this subject broached originally from Vancover
about aerial spaying of something and thinking this over we need to
formulate a plan for all to use if this occurs in our area.
The use of aerial spraying is economic or to use the current euphemism " =
cost
effectiveness " because its easier to cover large areas with a low cost
product than to hire people to spend lots of time traveling to apply =
this
product where its needed. If the product in question is a Bt type for =
use
against mosquitoe larvae, its proper and only place is on ponds where =
the
larvae are. Spraying land where they don't develop is useless unless =
there
are some people that don't clean their bird baths often enough to keep =
the
larvae in check. Michigan, to check gypsy moths, has sprayed selected =
areas
with a Bt for these and it does appear to be effective although we are
finding that there is now a parasite for gypsy moths that is keeping =
them in
check. In this case it was necessary to spray large areas because of the
location of this pest.
Would indiscriminate application cause other pests that are affected by =
other
strains of Bt to develop immunity to that strain? We know that =
indiscriminate
use of any product is not good and has most times caused more problems =
than
solved. I wouild refer many of you youngsters who may not have read it =
to
read Rachel Carson's ' Silent Spring " .
What do others think?
Kimm Miller
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5E5B.5F5A4E80
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5E5B.5F5A4E80--
Every summer they spray for mosquitoes in the town where I live. They spray
in the evening around 9:00, but it is just when the swimming pool is
closing, and all the kids are walking home. I have asked that they close
the pool earlier on the nights they spray to give the kids a chance to get
home before the spraying begins, but they didn't think it was necessary. It
makes me mad to have them spray down my street, because we don't have a
mosquito problem in my yard - the birds see to that. I put out bird feeders
and we have flocks of birds that live in my area, and even though we are
only a block from a small creek that has stagnant pockets of water
throughout the summer, we still don't have mosquito problems. After they
spray I usually don't find many insects pollinating in my garden. We have
some sphinx moths that pollinate my flowers in the evening, and after they
sprayed there was a big drop off of the moths.
And to make matters worse, they don't spray to prevent diseases. They spray
just because people in town start to complain about all the mosquitoes.
Linda Jones
----------
From: Anne Le May
To: Multiple recipients of list OGL
Subject: Re: Pesticides
Date: Monday, May 12, 1997 12:33 AM
I live in the San Fernando Valley area of So. California. Several years
ago, large areas of the valley were selected for aerial spraying of
Malathion to eliminate the Med Fly which was supposedly a threat to the
growers who were many miles away from this heavily populated residential
area. Not only were we sprayed once, but several times over many weeks.
People were warned by TV and radio messages when spraying was scheduled so
they could remain indoors and cover their cars with plastic because it ate
through the paint. Yet we were told that the spray was perfectly harmless.
Many residents protested, had petitions signed, pleaded with the Mayor, and
the spraying went on. We were told it was for our own good.
Many people developed strange illnesses and cases of asthma and allergies
were rampant. People had flu like symptoms that persisted for months.
Even though I live in the foothills and was out of the spraying pattern by
a few miles, I noticed that there were hardly any Honeybees and other
flying insects that summer for pollinazation or for the next couple of
years. I think the spraying also affected the bird population which has
now returned. And I see more large black bees that live alone in holes
drilled in wood or in leaf mulch. We call them Carpenter Bees and they are
tireless workers in the garden. They seem to have taken over for the
missing Honeybees.
The irony is that after all that spraying, the Med Fly was not eradicated.
Anne Le May
I see lots of comments on this subject broached originally from Vancover
about aerial spaying of something and thinking this over we need to
formulate a plan for all to use if this occurs in our area.
The use of aerial spraying is economic or to use the current euphemism "
cost
effectiveness " because its easier to cover large areas with a low cost
product than to hire people to spend lots of time traveling to apply this
product where its needed. If the product in question is a Bt type for use
against mosquitoe larvae, its proper and only place is on ponds where the
larvae are. Spraying land where they don't develop is useless unless there
are some people that don't clean their bird baths often enough to keep the
larvae in check. Michigan, to check gypsy moths, has sprayed selected
areas
with a Bt for these and it does appear to be effective although we are
finding that there is now a parasite for gypsy moths that is keeping them
in
check. In this case it was necessary to spray large areas because of the
location of this pest.
Would indiscriminate application cause other pests that are affected by
other
strains of Bt to develop immunity to that strain? We know that
indiscriminate
use of any product is not good and has most times caused more problems than
solved. I wouild refer many of you youngsters who may not have read it to
read Rachel Carson's ' Silent Spring " .
What do others think?
Kimm Miller
----------
Hi all,
We have a local lobby group called "Pesticides Action Group" that is
very active in promoting care in the public use of pesticides, and the
elimination of braodcast spraying as far as possible.
One of their minor victories is that our local council at least will NOT
spray the frontage of specific properties "on request", when spraying
for roadside weeds in the suburbs. We requested "No spray please" and a
council worker came and painted little green triangles at both sides of
our property. We have seen the spray crews stop when they come to these,
and then start again on the other side.
It is nice to have someone on one's side in these matters!
Tony & Moira
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0152_01C5A242.93193090
When you have several ambulances dispatched to one field, hauling people =
out of the field, it's hard to keep that a secret. Now I'm really =
dubious about buying a 50 lb. bag of onions from the packer this fall. =
Cringe. The jumbo onions I've been buying from them have been =
wonderful. 6 to 8 inches in diameter, flavorful without being =
tear-jerky hot...and the fellows in the warehouse are sometimes likely =
to toss in a 10 lb. bag of red onions...Granted, that was just one field =
out of hundreds, but the others may have used the same chemicals, but =
more appropriately. At least less noticeably. Margaret L
Margaret wrote:
We had a recent incident of migrant farm workers getting suddenly sick
because of exposure to pesticides. That occurred in July, when they =
were
hoeing weeds in an onion field. Now in mid-August, some are still too =
sick
to work. State authorities are still looking into the problem, but =
the
pesticide has not been publicly named. The newspaper reports the =
field was
not "posted" with a sign identifying it as having been recently =
sprayed. The
farm workers are illiterate in Spanish...they surely wouldn't have =
been able
to read such a sign anyway. Disgraceful and tragic situation.
Check the University of California, University of Florida, and Texas A =
& M
web sites for the reports from their medical schools about the really =
high
incidence of pesticide poisoning they see each year in migrant =
workers. The
speculation is that since this happens with "migrant" workers the USA =
news
media is not interested although if this happened, in the numbers =
those
medical schools report, to WASPs the information would be all over the
papers.
Kimm
------=_NextPart_000_0152_01C5A242.93193090
Margaret, when my grandmother got ALS a neighbor of mine at the time who was
a nurse said, "did you know ALS is called the migrant worker's disease?" She
went on to say that its probably because of so much pesticide exposure that
migrant workers have higher rates of ALS than other populations. My
grandmother was a florist... no coincidence probably.
Have you noticed oil prices? Is it too much to hope that pesticide
producers aren't going to be able to provide their petroleum based poisons
so cheaply? The cheap cost seduces so many people into using them. I hope
the cost soars!
Laura
Margaret wrote:
We had a recent incident of migrant farm workers getting suddenly sick
because of exposure to pesticides. That occurred in July, when they were
hoeing weeds in an onion field. Now in mid-August, some are still too sick
to work. State authorities are still looking into the problem, but the
pesticide has not been publicly named. The newspaper reports the field was
not "posted" with a sign identifying it as having been recently sprayed. The
farm workers are illiterate in Spanish...they surely wouldn't have been able
to read such a sign anyway. Disgraceful and tragic situation.
Check the University of California, University of Florida, and Texas A & M
web sites for the reports from their medical schools about the really high
incidence of pesticide poisoning they see each year in migrant workers. The
speculation is that since this happens with "migrant" workers the USA news
media is not interested although if this happened, in the numbers those
medical schools report, to WASPs the information would be all over the
papers.
Kimm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_018F_01C5A254.FC74E900
The only person I knew of who had ALS was not even a gardener. Her son =
(my friend) said he'd rather be skinned alive than have that disease. =
Perhaps there's some difference so subtle between that afflicting =
migrant workers and non migrant workers it escapes detection. I'm =
shocked that people are swallowing these astronomical oil prices so =
easily, even knowing that the big oil companies are enjoying record =
profits, and the oil producing companies are wallowing in huge profits, =
especially the Saudis. The cost of transporting goods is going to hit =
very hard, and we'll be into astronomical inflation, soon, I fear. I =
don't think the cost of pesticides will deter their use among those =
who've used them for decades...as it is, many farmers sell at a loss =
(sell for less than it cost to plant and treat the crop), enduring =
losses for years, hoping they'll have a very good year that will make up =
for it. Sometimes creditors catch up first, unfortunately. Margaret L
Margaret, when my grandmother got ALS a neighbor of mine at the time =
who was
a nurse said, "did you know ALS is called the migrant worker's =
disease?" She
went on to say that its probably because of so much pesticide exposure =
that
migrant workers have higher rates of ALS than other populations. My
grandmother was a florist... no coincidence probably.
Have you noticed oil prices? Is it too much to hope that pesticide
producers aren't going to be able to provide their petroleum based =
poisons
so cheaply? The cheap cost seduces so many people into using them. I =
hope
the cost soars!
Laura
***************************
Laura's pages for Homeschooling, Gardening, and Genealogy
are found here: =
http://home.att.net/~ekyorigins
yahoo id: ekyorigins
***************************
------=_NextPart_000_018F_01C5A254.FC74E900
content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1>
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leftMargin=0 topMargin=0 acc_role="text" CanvasTabStop=3D"true"
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--Apple-Mail-9--129966210
format=flowed
that is just awful, and please someone tell me why they have to spray
the onions ? with what? onions are so care-free.
susan
> When you have several ambulances dispatched to one field, hauling
> people out of the field, it's hard to keep that a secret.=A0 Now I'm=20=
> really dubious about buying a 50 lb. bag of onions from the packer
> this fall.?? Cringe.?? The jumbo onions I've been buying from them =
have
--Apple-Mail-9--129966210
that is just awful, and please someone tell me why they have to spray
the onions ? with what? onions are so care-free.
susan
have several ambulances dispatched to one field, hauling people out of
the field, it's hard to keep that a secret.=A0 Now I'm really dubious
about buying a 50 lb. bag of onions from the packer this fall.=A0
Cringe.=A0 The jumbo onions I've been buying from them have been
wonderful.=A0 6 to 8 inches in diameter, flavorful without being
tear-jerky hot...and the fellows in the warehouse are sometimes likely
to toss in a 10 lb. bag of red onions...Granted, that was just one
field out of hundreds, but the others may have used the same
chemicals, but more appropriately.?? At least less noticeably.??
Margaret L
--Apple-Mail-9--129966210--
Several years ago I got into a very long drawn out flame war with a
conventional onion grower and among the things i learned about onions
growing commercially is one must use some very very nasty chemicals for
fungus, weeds and pests. the onion grower saw nothing strange about
having to wear a Haz Mat suit to go into his fields.
I grow onions commercial on a small scale using organic methods and
rarely have any fungus problems but have been hit badly by onion maggots
in the past. And this year the weeds got the better of 5 beds so we have
a lot of undersized onions despite spending many many hours pulling
weeds and hoeing the onions.
I try to stay away from conventionally grown onions. they got way too
many chemicals on them for my tastes
Lucy
Susan Setzler wrote:
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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/Sorry, folks. It's Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, a progressive =
neurodegenerative disease that attacks nerve cells in the brain and =
spinal cord resulting in muscle weakness and atrophy. It's a fatal =
disease, no cure. In the U.S. it's often called "Lou Gehrig" disease =
after a famous baseball player who was forced to retire early from that =
career because of this disease. Margaret L
What is ALS, please?
Tony
--
Tony & Moira Ryan,
Wainuiomata, North Island, NZ. Pictures of our garden at:-
=
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cherie1/Garden/TonyandMoira/index.htm
NEW PICTURES AND DIAGRAMS ADDED 20/Feb/2005
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Margaret I remember reading that cut flowers have high amounts of
pesticides. That is what my grandmother worked with for years.
Margaret, a family member of mine believes that the oil companies are just
making a killing as quickly as possible so they can gain as much land as
possible before the bubble bursts. I'm a pessimist and am inclined to agree.
Inflation is likely just around the corner.
Laura
so easily, even knowing that the big oil companies are enjoying record
profits, and the oil producing companies are wallowing in huge profits,
especially the Saudis. The cost of transporting goods is going to hit very
hard, and we'll be into astronomical inflation, soon, I fear.
MARGARET LAUTERBACH wrote:
> The only person I knew of who had ALS was not even a gardener.
What is ALS, please?
Tony
--
Tony & Moira Ryan,
Wainuiomata, North Island, NZ. Pictures of our garden at:-
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cherie1/Garden/TonyandMoira/index.htm
NEW PICTURES AND DIAGRAMS ADDED 20/Feb/2005
MARGARET LAUTERBACH wrote:
> /Sorry, folks. It's Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, a progressive
> neurodegenerative disease that attacks nerve cells in the brain and
> spinal cord resulting in muscle weakness and atrophy.
Thx
Tony
--
Tony & Moira Ryan,
Wainuiomata, North Island, NZ. Pictures of our garden at:-
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cherie1/Garden/TonyandMoira/index.htm
NEW PICTURES AND DIAGRAMS ADDED 20/Feb/2005
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Just to cheer you Americans up a bit. Our petrol now stands at Euro =
1.079 per liter at the cheapest pump (as high as 1.21 in places). =
Multiply by 1.26 to convert to $$ which makes 1.35 per liter or $5.4 per =
U.S gallon. Gives astronomical a new meaning what?
john
The only person I knew of who had ALS was not even a gardener. Her son =
(my friend) said he'd rather be skinned alive than have that disease. =
Perhaps there's some difference so subtle between that afflicting =
migrant workers and non migrant workers it escapes detection. I'm =
shocked that people are swallowing these astronomical oil prices so =
easily, even knowing that the big oil companies are enjoying record =
profits, and the oil producing companies are wallowing in huge profits, =
especially the Saudis. The cost of transporting goods is going to hit =
very hard, and we'll be into astronomical inflation, soon, I fear. I =
don't think the cost of pesticides will deter their use among those =
who've used them for decades...as it is, many farmers sell at a loss =
(sell for less than it cost to plant and treat the crop), enduring =
losses for years, hoping they'll have a very good year that will make up =
for it. Sometimes creditors catch up first, unfortunately. Margaret L
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John D'hondt wrote:
> Just to cheer you Americans up a bit. Our petrol now stands at Euro
> 1.079 per liter at the cheapest pump (as high as 1.21 in places).
> Multiply by 1.26 to convert to $$ which makes 1.35 per liter or $5.4 per
> U.S gallon. Gives astronomical a new meaning what?
Current price of 91 octane petrol in NZ is NZ1.40/liter (NZ$1.00 = US$
0.70 approx).
Tony
--
Tony & Moira Ryan,
Wainuiomata, North Island, NZ. Pictures of our garden at:-
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cherie1/Garden/TonyandMoira/index.htm
NEW PICTURES AND DIAGRAMS ADDED 20/Feb/2005
Researchers look at farm kids, pesticides
FARGO, N.D. (AP) -- Preliminary results of a study of North Dakota farm
children exposed to pesticides show they performed significantly lower than their
peers on IQ tests, though their scores still are within a range considered
normal.
The study by University of North Dakota researchers involved two groups of
children in the northern Red River Valley, one group living on or near an active
farm or field, another living at least a mile away.
Children living on or near farms tested an average of five points lower on
standard IQ tests, said Patricia Moulton, an experimental psychologist at UND.
"That's a significant difference," she said.
The findings were presented to the Dakota Conference on Rural and Public
Health in Fargo this week.
The study, funded by a branch of the National Institutes of Health, will go
on to determine whether there is a correlation between the level of exposure to
pesticides and performance on memory, intelligence and other mental functions.
"We're going to look at a dose-response relationship. We're going to be able
to associate the test scores with (pesticide) concentrations in the blood and
urine," Moulton said.
The researchers found the average intelligence score for the farm children
was 98 - still within the range of 85 to 115 that is considered normal but was
well below the average IQ score of 103 for the group with lower chronic
exposures to pesticides, Moulton said.
Each group included 64 children, a number determined to be statistically
sound, ages 7 to 12.
Children living on farms also had lower scores in verbal comprehension,
visual perceptual reasoning, memory and mental processing speed, the study found.
Moulton and her research partner, Thomas Petros, also an experimental
psychologist at UND, said farm families are very interested in the study.
"I'm not advocating that we get rid of pesticides, because they're very
important to farming," Moulton said. She said she supports a "happy medium," by
using non-toxic pesticides whenever possible and taking more steps to decrease
exposure.
Moulton and Petros hope to expand their study on pesticide and mental
performance by testing farm children throughout North Dakota, with testing year-round.
The study is an offshoot of a large epidemiological study that UND
researchers are conducting on chronic pesticide exposure and degenerative brain diseases
such as Alzheimer's disease.
---
Thanks for posting this. Here in north Texas, ground ivy and a similar (ver= y similar in appearance) weed, henbit, are kind of accepted as the way it i= s. I'm not saying no one cares whether it's in their yard, but there is no = way I would spray pesticides on my lawn, considering my 2 kids and 2 dogs, = and all of the birds, and lady beetles, and butterflies. Even if I didn't h= ave the kids, etc., pesticides seep through into ground water, and spread i= n the wind to others, people like us who don't want it floating around when= our kids are out playing. Is a weed that is at least pretty so big of a de= al that you have to keep using dangerous chemicals? I know that for me, per= sonally, I'll figure out a way to deal with the weeds without the chemicals= . If I have to dig them out every year (as I do with thistle in our back ya= rd) I will. It's worth it to me.
Kimmie in TX
efrog efrog22@vegemail.com wrote:
Well, at the risk of being labeled a radical, I must ask all of you =
to please consider non-pesticide options before adding to the world's
pesticide problem. Please check out
http://www.beyondpes= ticides.org/index.html
and also do your own additional research before adding more of these
poisons to our already overtaxed environment.
Thanks for listening.
efrog
--- In gardenmessenger@yahoogroups.com, Kellygreenfav@... wrote:
Sharon,
Thank you SO much for the information on Trimec. I'll look for i= t
at Lowe's.
I sure hope they carry it because the ground ivy is taking over =
already. By
the time is quits raining here in Ohio it will be as thick as the
grass if I
don't weed it out every two or three days. I'm sure I don't have=
to tell you
that though.
If Lowe's doesn't have it I'll look for it at a large nursery in
Columbus
next week. I hope they sell it as a concentrate because we have an acre, and it's
everywhere. I'll be happy if I can just eliminate it close to th= e
house, and
in my flowerbeds.
Thanks again,
Kelly
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