Something is strange. There is nothing new about flatworm existence. They have
occurred in Calif for years.
HP Authorized Customer wrote:
Last year a discussion about flatworms appeared here indicating these were a
problem in New Zealand, Ireland, and England. An article in "Kitchen
Gardener", a Taunton Press magazine indicates these are now appearing in the
US and Peter Ducey at the Department of Biological Sciences at State
University of New York, Courtland, NY 13045 is attempting to track the range
and numbers of these buggers.
Flatworms are yellow to tan in color with a dark stripe running the length
of the body, has a protruding half moon shaped head and are up to 4 inches
long. If you find these earthworm parasites, contact him.
Kimm
Flatworms have been seen in
San Diego county, so they are not new in US
Tony & Moira Ryan wrote:
re flatworms
Moira and others,
Are flatworms harmful in the garden? Do they prey upon earthworms?
We found a flatworm living underneath a bag of compost in our backyard, but
did not interfere with it. (We thought it looked really cool.)
Besides reporting it to the fella that Kimm mentioned, should we kill
flatworms as we come across them?
Thanks,
Tiffany
Kimm said on Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:41:02 -0800:
Peter Ducey at the Department of Biological Sciences at State
University of New York, Courtland, NY 13045 is attempting to track the range
and numbers of these buggers.
Flatworms are yellow to tan in color with a dark stripe running the length
of the body, has a protruding half moon shaped head and are up to 4 inches
long. If you find these earthworm parasites, contact him.
My apologies, Moira, I knew better than flatworms being a problem in New
Zealand. I can only say that in typing the mind often goes faster than the
fingers and I forgot the cardinal rule 'read what you wrote' to be sure it
said what I meant.
As a peace offering I give you this piece I received this weekend.
I don't fully understand the Y to K problem, but have adjusted my calendar
to reflect what I think solves it. It now reads
Januark
Februark
March
April
Mak
June
Julk
August
September
October
November
December
Kimm
HP Authorized Customer wrote:
> Last year a discussion about flatworms appeared here indicating these were a
> problem in New Zealand, Ireland, and England. An article in "Kitchen
> Gardener", a Taunton Press magazine indicates these are now appearing in the
> US
Kimm
I must correct one part of this statement. The flatworm in question
originated in NZ, but has never been a problem here as its only known
habitat is a very obscure area of bush right in the wilderness and apart
from the original description nobody local seems to know anything about
it, or its habits, in its natural setting. Presumably it is in
equilibrium with species of native worm.
How it went on its OE (oversease experience) is, as far as I know, a
total mystery.
We must hope it never discovers the delights of cultivated land in this
country, with all those lovely imported European worms. So far there
appears to be no sign it is doing so.
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand
Moira - from what the researchers here are finding out there seem to be
strong climatic controlls on the dear little NZFW - it isn't managing to
survive in the south of England either and there are reasons to think that
it has arrived and died out in West Cork. Of course in the south of england
they now have an aussie cousin on the rampage instead - I suspect that is
the one you need to worry about
I've heard stories of them settling down in the sewage system in the UK and
surprising people by smiling up at them from the loo
However a friend who has had them for the last three years says that if she
uses black plastic to warm her raised beds up early in the spring it seems
to keep the numbers down to a level where they coexist with the worms - and
they stay out of her polytunnel and greenhouse. Adrian - this might work
for you - do they get into those mammoth compost heaps of yours?
kathryn
flatworms have been in SAn Diego for years
kathryn marsh wrote:
Tiffany Abells wrote:
Tiffany
As far as I know many flatworms lead blameless lives, but just a few
species which have developed a huge appetite for earthworms are causing
havock in some parts of the world. I suggest you contact Peter Ducey or
some other person who knows their ways before opting for wholesale
massacre of the ones in your area, otherwise you could be tsking
innocent lives.
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand
kathryn marsh wrote:
kathryn
Thanks for this interesting update, which I have just got round to
digesting.
I certainly don't like the sound of the Aussie one, which would probably
find our North Island climate pretty acceptable. We seem to have got
much better at keeping out unwanted "visitors" in recent years, or
dealing with them effectively at the point of entry. We even hired
spraying planes from Canada a couple of years ago to help (successfully)
eradicate a tussock moth which had appeared in Auckland. I sure hope we
can prevent this flatworm becoming our latest illegal immigrant.
Your remark about the worms "smiling up from the loo" brough back a
funny thing which happened on our honeymoon (almost fifty years ago). We
were staying at a hotel on the Kenya coast and had one of a series of
self-contained cottages close to the beach. In the loo of our ensuite we
were astonished to find a large frog swimming round the pan. I could
think of nothing to do but operate the flush, when he duely disappeared,
but a few hours later a loud croaking showed he was back, and we finally
got him out on the floor and shooed him out the door. Goodness know how
he got into the (probably rather primitive ) plumbing, but I guess he
was relieved to be showm a way out.
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand
HP Authorized Customer wrote:
Kimm
Apology and peace offering accepted
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand
black plastic outdoors caused mine to breed and eat all the worms !
Adrian
Behalf Of kathryn marsh
Sent: 18 February 1999 20:59
To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: Flatworms
Moira - from what the researchers here are finding out there seem to be
strong climatic controlls on the dear little NZFW - it isn't managing to
survive in the south of England either and there are reasons to think that
it has arrived and died out in West Cork. Of course in the south of england
they now have an aussie cousin on the rampage instead - I suspect that is
the one you need to worry about
I've heard stories of them settling down in the sewage system in the UK and
surprising people by smiling up at them from the loo
However a friend who has had them for the last three years says that if she
uses black plastic to warm her raised beds up early in the spring it seems
to keep the numbers down to a level where they coexist with the worms - and
they stay out of her polytunnel and greenhouse. Adrian - this might work
for you - do they get into those mammoth compost heaps of yours?
kathryn
black plastic outdoors caused mine to breed and eat all the worms !
Adrian
Adrian
Nicky put a lot of effort into raising her beds about 3 times as high as
yours and clearing anything that keeps the sun off them - her soil is a lot
warmer there than the rest of her garden soil, she still finds lots of them
under there in winter and painstakingly water drops them into boiling
water, but she finds that the worm population recovers in the spring,
although if she leaves the black stuff anywhere in the shade around the
place she finds flatworms under it all summer. She never finds them in her
tunnel in summer although if she puts down a trap they are sometimes there
in winter, and her tunnel worm population is very healthey
kathryn
Lorna Noble wrote:
What are these flatworms. Are they true Platyhelmenthes(sl?). Do they
kill the earthworms?
--
Harold Eddleman; west of Louisville KY
Artioposthia triangulata, is a terrestrial planarian. Yes, they kill
earthworms.
http://www.csl.gov.uk/environment/level3/flatworm.htm
http://www.biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/artioposthia.html
They've also been found in New England, New Jersey, and California...from
reports I've seen in gardening email lists.
Barb in Southern Indiana Zone 5/6 dorsett@blueriver.net
A root is a flower that disdains fame.
The message about the California siting was posted on Medit-Plants, and they
were found near San Francisco, which is cool enough and foggy enough to have
trouble growing tomatoes.
http://www.mallorn.com/lists/medit-plants/feb00/msg00038.html
Regards,
Barb in Southern Indiana Zone 5/6 dorsett@blueriver.net
A root is a flower that disdains fame.
At 09:49 AM 3/20/00 +1200, Moira said,
> I should just like to add that in New Zealand they are such a rare
Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes. I work for that part of USDA (the Animal
and Plant Health Inspection Service) that's charged with keeping foreign
insect and animal pests out of the United States. The border-inspection
work of the Plant Protection and Quarantine branch of the agency covers
cargo, baggage, and personal property coming into the country via sea,
land, and air.
One of our strictest rules is that nothing can come in in soil. Almost
undoubtedly, some well-meaning resident of Scotland or Ireland unknowingly
spirited the flatworms into those countries when bringing back potted-up
plant material of some sort from New Zealand.
> In their native haunts the flatworms apparently
> mange to co-exist with the native earthworm population. Presumably they
> have natural enemies that keep them in check.
Very likely they do. Starlings and gypsy moths are two pest species here
that unfortunately got in by design--the design of individuals who did not
comprehend the seriousness of bringing in A without also bringing in the
natural controls for A.
For the record, until I saw the earlier post on this thread here in OGL, I
had never heard that the flatworms had arrived anywhere in the United
States. This is precisely the sort of thing I would have heard about
through work channels. Doesn't mean they're NOT here, but the temperature
regime info makes me wonder, too, along with Moira.
--Janet
My guess is that the California reports - and they did look pretty credible
- were one of the Aussie heat tolerant cousins that are appearing in
southern England.
I am pretty sure there are some natural predators around even here in
Ireland. I spotted a flatworm in the garden in a low lying very damp area
two years ago - haven't seen one since. Given that the garden is heaving
with earthworms it isn't possible that it wouldn't have spread its little
offspring around. And whilst I killed that one the normal method of
transport is as eggs and there are a heck of a lot of baby flatworms in an
eggcase. But that patch of garden has horse leeches in quantity (which I
suspect of also being earthworm predators - anyone know?) and I think maybe
the horse leeches were bigger and fiercer than the flatworms. Earwigs
certainly take great delight in munching flatworm eggs
kathryn
Dorsett wrote:
Barb
I should just like to add that in New Zealand they are such a rare
denzine of remote forests in our extreme south they were virtually
unknown even to most local zoologists until they suddenly turned up in
Scotland and Ireland. How they managed this trip remains a mystery, but
their appearence in these places is a clear indication of the need for
extreme vigilance on the part of those involved in quarantine work on
imported plant material. In their native haunts the flatworms apparently
mange to co-exist with the native earthworm population. Presumably they
have natural enemies that keep them in check.
In the settled parts of this country while we still depend on native
earthworms to service our forests, pasture and cultivated lands have big
popuations of species imported originally from Britain. The irony is
that our flatworm has never been found attacking these in any part of
the country.
.
I would definitely query the identification in California as these
critters are very sensitive to high temperatures, so much so that,
while they have virtually wiped out earthworms in Scotland, I am told
they have only been able to spread in to the most northern counties of
England. There is no other evident physical barrier to this spread,
apart from the higher summer temperatures
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand. (on the "Ring of Fire" in the SW Pacific).
Lat. 41:16S Long. 174:58E. Climate: Mediterranean/Temperate
Found that very interesting about the ground and rove beetles eating the
flatworms
thanks for sharing
eliza
Hi Kathryn,
I visited a few web sites on this and found some interesting information
regarding biological controls. Here is an excerpt from
http://www.admin.ed.ac.uk/scieng/scientis/articles/nzflat.htm
"Our studies here in Edinburgh have indicated that earthworms are more or
less at risk depending upon their burrowing habits within the top 30 cm of
soil and their burrow diameters. It seems that Artioposthia does not have a
preferred prey but merely hunts in the more accessible burrows devouring on
average an earthworm per week apparently unchecked. However, by marking
earthworms with vital stains and feeding them to flatworms which in turn
became stained, we achieve identified individuals for mark and recapture
trials. A subsequent search for these marked individuals turned up stained
larvae of Ground and Rove beetles: indicating that these non-specialist
carnivores will eat the flatworm and are potential control agents. Indeed
in the laboratory carabid and staphylinid larvae have been sustained and
shown to gain weight appropriately on a diet of 1 flatworm per day."
So if we can sustain high populations of these predator insects (yet
another vote for no-till and "wild area" gardening) perhaps we can lessen
the local incidence of the NZ flatworm in our own gardens.
--
Bob Carter
Kootenay Bay, BC Canada
Zone 6b
maybe
Dorsett wrote:
> The message about the California siting was posted on Medit-Plants, and they
> were found near San Francisco, which is cool enough and foggy enough to have
> trouble growing tomatoes.
Well
I guess anywhere which has difficulty growing tomatoes could be within
the flatworms' preferred range
Thanks
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand. (on the "Ring of Fire" in the SW Pacific).
Lat. 41:16S Long. 174:58E. Climate: Mediterranean/Temperate
Janet Wintermute wrote:
Hi Janet
In my earliest working years I was occasionally associated with this
sort of work while employed by the Kenya Dept of Agriculture, so I do
have some appreciation of the magnitude of the problem.
> One of our strictest rules is that nothing can come in in soil. Almost
> undoubtedly, some well-meaning resident of Scotland or Ireland unknowingly
> spirited the flatworms into those countries when bringing back potted-up
> plant material of some sort from New Zealand
Some of the worst problems here apparently come out of shipping
containers, including poisonous snakes (NZ is snake-free) and equally
unpleasant spiders, while eggs and larvae of serious agricultural pests
and various bits of contaminated soil have hitched rides on some of the
multitude of second-hand cars we import annually from Japan. it
certainly keeps our inspectors working hard.
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand. (on the "Ring of Fire" in the SW Pacific).
Lat. 41:16S Long. 174:58E. Climate: Mediterranean/Temperate
From: TONY NELSON-SMITH
To: bdnow@envirolink.org
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: from NYTimes for you earthworm lovers
Thanks, Jane! The assertion that most North American earthworms are, in fact, European immigrants set me to thinking... You may have read that, in parts of Great Britain, our native earthworms are under threat from a large flatworm originating in New Zealand (so watch out over there!). I just wondered whether any contributors from NZ could tell us if it also attacks their native earthworm species, or are they able to cope in some way that British ones can't? Tony N-S.
--------------------------------------------------------
Free ezine tells you how to start in Internet Marketing,
and WHY the marketing gurus are correct!
mailto:jorna@mobilixnet.dk?Subject=subscribe
--------------------------------------------------------
Carol Jensen wrote:
Hi Tony
It is very difficult for New Zealanders to give any specific information
on these flatworms. In their native country they are very obscure
dwellers in undisturbed native bush and scarcely known even to
scientists. When enquiries from Ireland and Britain began to come
through the list I enquired of experts at our National Museum and
couldn't find anybody who knew much more about them than that they
existed.
I should think they must eat native earthworms, but they certainly don't
attack the imported species which work in cutivated areas. There seems
to be no indication of them seriously reducing the population of local
bushworms, so one presumes there is some sort of equilibrium. Perhaps
they have natural enemies, but i don't think anybody knows for certain..
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata (near Wellington, capital city of New Zealand)
> There is a parasite worm, that is kind of flat, I think and I also think
they
> have a triangular shaped head. They eat our earth worms.
These are Flatworms and are parasites, eating the earthworms. They were
imported, the USDA thinks, from New Zealand in some potted plants several
years ago. You might want to do a web search for "Flatworms" to see what new
stuff might be out there.
Kimm
This is not what I've been seeing in the garden at all. Mine are round,
night crawler size, grey, striped with a sucker for a mouth.
(thank goodness! These flatworms you are talking about are horrible!) They
can bunch themselves up to look shorter and fatter. They come out all over
the sidewalk when it rains like a normal worm would but look nothing (at
all) like a normal worm. It'll have to wait till I get a camera.
Laura
in
Photo and information on dealing with the beast at
http://www.hdra.org.uk/factsheets/pc21.htm
If you don't know the HDRA, which is the leading British organisation for
organic gardeners, I suggest you have a look at this site whether you have
flatworms or not.
Of course if you are in somewhere warmer than the New Zealand flatworm
territory you may have the Aussie variety instead. One unfortunate friend
of mine has the Australian in her tunnels and the Kiwi type in the rest of
her garden. And very few earthworms despite years of composting all the
lovely manure from her hens and horses. She gets plenty of red wrigglers in
her nice warm compost heaps but as soon as its spread the worms get
murdered. Lovely soil though thanks to the rest of the microherd.
kathryn
