Borrowed some interesting books from the library today, among them Thomas
Jefferson's Garden and Farm Books. Came across this intriguing entry for
1793:
"Octob. gave a green dressing of tob[acco] suckers to the three Westernmost
squares of the garden, trenching them 10.1 deep & 2 f. wide at intervals of
2 feet, filling the trenches with green suckers and covering them over with
earth.
"covered the three terrasses of Asparagus under the garden wall with a thick
coat of tobacco suckers, & on that a thick coat of well rotted d[ung?]."
This is not his *farm* cash crop, but rather some *garden* application. As
a pesticide? I've just begun trying to track down this use of tobacco.
Anyone have any ideas?
Pat
Or perhaps as fertilizer? But strange that in one case he trenches them and in the other covers asparagus, which makes is sound like fall fertilizing. Of course many still think that compost should be dug in and perhaps he did too.
One gets tons and tons of tobacco suckers if one grows tobacco on a plantation. Just 20-25 plants gives loads.
Carol
Fertilizer, hmmmm.... That makes more sense. I immediately thought of the
nicotine, and my mind jumped to pesticide. I didn't know that, about the
proliferation of suckers -- so could be a good use for them.
Pat
Carol answered with:
> Or perhaps as fertilizer? But strange that in one case he trenches them and
in the other covers asparagus, which makes is sound like fall fertilizing.
Of course many still think that compost should be dug in and perhaps he did
too.
You could be right in your first thought.
Asparagus beetles overwinter in plant debris. Covering asparagus with
tobacco suckers would put the pesticide closest to where pesty adults are
most likely to be seeking shelter - with the added benefit of a leafy
barrier protecting the asparagus from contact with the very fresh manure.
Fresh manure would keep that debris warmer than the surrounds...and beetles
might be tempted by that seeming welcome mat. If they stay...they probably
die. If they leave, they may die in the search for more hospitable digs.
Barb in Southern Indiana Zone 5/6 dorsettm@scin.quik.com
Time is what keeps things from happening all at once.
What about a source of tobacco mosaic virus- It's a source for that too.
ANy thoughts on whether this is destroyed in compost process???
---------------------------------------------
which tells how tobacco is a good source of nitrogen for the compost pile.
Patricia Ruggiero wrote:
Pat
I have no idea of the nutrient value of tobacco leaves, but I wonder if
this could be comparable to the way many of us today would use comfrey
to add minerals to the soil ..
it could also possibly be to repel soil infesting insects, though I am
not quite sure if there is in fact appreciable nicotine in the young
suckers.
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand, SW Pacific. 12 hours ahead of Greenwich Time
I would assume that the suckers have the same nicotine content as the rest of the plant. If you miss a sucker it grows and grows until it is as big as the mother plant.
Carol
Barb Dorsett and I have been communicating off-list about this. She sent me
a link
http://www.environmentalindustry.com/swt/archives/0299/299cmp.asp
which tells how tobacco is a good source of nitrogen for the compost pile.
I'm guessing that TJ made use of the suckers, which he would have had in
abundance as one of his cash crops was tobacco, to fertilize various areas
of his garden.
Pat
Moira wrote:
> I have no idea of the nutrient value of tobacco leaves, but I wonder if
this could be comparable to the way many of us today would use comfrey to
add minerals to the soil ..
Bill asked:
"What about a source of tobacco mosaic virus- It's a source for that too.
ANy thoughts on whether this is destroyed in compost process???"
That particular article didn't mention TMV, and I have no idea what its fate
might be in the compost pile.
One of the other articles I read, about using tobacco as a pesticide, did
advise about the TMV.
The Jefferson books aren't indexed. Maddening! I'd like to track his use
of tobacco suckers, see whether it was for compost or for pesticide, see
what the outcomes were. So far I haven't come across any more references to
this in these books.
With respect to his using it in the asparagus plantings, one might check to
see if TMV bothers asparagus.
Pat
Carol Jensen wrote:
Carol
Well, I am not sure. I presumed these were quite young shoots which were
pulled off to let the energy go into the main plant only, and I have no
idea whether immature shoots would have already developed much nicotone
content.
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand, SW Pacific. 12 hours ahead of Greenwich Time
Moira wrote:
"I presumed these were quite young shoots which were pulled off to let the
energy go into the main plant only, and I have no idea whether immature
shoots would have already developed much nicotone content."
Just to complete the picture, I came across this information about tobacco
culture: growers nip off the flowering tips and it's this that causes the
suckers to form; growers then have to cut out the suckers. Nicotine content
wasn't mentioned in this particular discussion.
Pat
Do they come up coiled? You wouldn't even have to roll your
seegars...Margaret L
Carol verified my readings with:
"The first year I grew tobacco, I knew enough to break off all but one
flower (that for seeds) and the next thing I knew all these suckers were
growing out of the leaf angles up and down each plant!"
Glad to have empirical evidence to back up my readings.
Pat
Next time I grow tobacco, I will save some suckers and try to smoke them and let you know. The leaves of suckers at least.
Carol
Yes, Pat, that is exactly right. The first year I grew tobacco, I knew enough to break off all but one flower (that for seeds) and the next thing I knew all these suckers were growing out of the leaf angles up and down each plant! They are easy to nip, but the plants are so big that they cover each other and I was always finding huge suckers right up to October when I harvested the plants and removed the very last suckers. I had them too close of course.
Carol
Having thought about this for several days, it strikes me that the question
isn't "why did TJ put tobacco suckers in his garden soil?" at all. Sure
they have nitrogen, but then so do a lot of other tender young plant leaves.
My current thinking is that TJ was just using whatever was to hand to
fertilize his garden; in this case, he had plenty of tobacco suckers. What
I'm looking for now, as I continue through his Garden and Farm Books, is to
see *what else* he used, *what else* he did with weeds, spent plants,
suckers, etc.
Pat
The original excerpt follows:
"Octob. gave a green dressing of tob[acco] suckers to the three Westernmost
squares of the garden, trenching them 10.1 deep & 2 f. wide at intervals of
2 feet, filling the trenches with green suckers and covering them over with
earth.
"covered the three terrasses of Asparagus under the garden wall with a thick
coat of tobacco suckers, & on that a thick coat of well rotted d[ung?]."
No. And once they dry they are hard to work with! Carol
