At various times we've talked a lot about slug control, but I'm having a
bit of an epic battle these days, so I thought I'd ask and see if anyone
might have another suggestion. I have a largish area which I've
mulched over with a thick layer of ramiel wood from a tree just taken
down. It's been a shady area, but now gets quite a lot of sun. Along
the fence I put several small round areas of finished compost over the
top of the wood chips, and then planted sunflower seeds with runner
beans and a few morning glories, marigolds, etc.
It's been a bit of an experiment, because I wasn't sure how things would
go. Well, it turns out they've sprouted nicely and are very happy.
Unfortunately the slugs are far too happy as well. My constant watering
to keep the seed bed moist has also created a slug heaven in the mulch.
Every night they're crawling out and demolishing the recent sprouts.
I've put out lots and lots of sluggo, thinking the iron phosphate would
be enough to keep them under control. Not sure how I feel about this
product, and I'm not even certain that it's organic although I'm
assuming it is. So far it's barely slowed them down. I'm also doing an
awful gross lot of hand squishing every night. I'm about fed up with
that.
In previous experience, it seems that if they can just get up about
three inches, which sunflowers and runner beans do quite quickly, then
they are slug hardy and will survive. However, I'm not sure even with
having dramatically overseeded, that I'm going to get anything to
survive. Elsewhere in the garden a bit of sluggo was enough to deter
them, and a have a fair survival rate on the sunflowers. I was glancing
through Gardener's Supply catalog, and of course there's a wide array of
stuff to supposedly help out, including elaborate beer traps. I have a
beer trap elsewhere in the garden, and I'm dismayed at the number of
other insects that get stuck in there. The kids are forever doing rolly
polly rescue with it. I'm wondering though about trying copper rings
placed close around the seedlings as they emerge. It's fairly simple to
make them from stuff bought at the hardware store as I remember. Anyone
have an idea? Thanks much!
Regards, Laurie
Mill Valley, CA
Waht about Al uminum screening as the material for your slug seedling
collars?... could even clear coat w/ shellac so the Al wouln't oxidize so
much... Fray the end that goes up so it will look like a spiky
fence..dunnoifitlwork...
bil;le
At various times we've talked a lot about slug control, but I'm having a
bit of an epic battle these days,
Is the idea here to make a rough surface that they won't crawl over? Or
do they react to alum. the same way they react to copper (sizzle and
burn that is)?
yup...i dont think they react to the Al,,, just repelled by the pointiness
of the top of the "fence"(Al collars).... like I said b4
,,,,dunnoifitlwork... I think Kevin Chisolm came up w/ this idea a couple
years ago...
Is the idea here to make a rough surface that they won't crawl over? Or
do they react to alum. the same way they react to copper (sizzle and
burn that is)?
If the main issue is with the slugs eating seedlings,
rather than engaging in an epic battle you may be able
to get more surviving plants with less effort by
sprouting seeds elsewhere and transplanting once they
are tough enough to withstand slugs, especially if you
have created such a perfect habitat for slugs. Why
feed them in addition to giving them nice homes?
Also, this is just an idea, but it sounds like the
problem is that you have a nice moist mulchy habitat
for slugs. When you water, your goal is to water your
plants, not wet the mulch. I wonder if it would help
to water very carefully around each plant rather than
broadcast over the whole area. Also, drip irrigation,
where the water would go directly to the roots rather
than over the surface, might be a help.
=====
Merry Luskin, Oakland CA
Reference librarian and handspinner
Weeder, Librarians' Index to the Internet
http://lii.org
__________________________________________________
> Is the idea here to make a rough surface that they won't crawl over? Or
> do they react to alum. the same way they react to copper (sizzle and
> burn that is)?
Rough surfaces make slugs laugh, they produce a slime mat to crawl over.
Copper works exactly because it can oxidize an then will work as a poison.
I myself experience a bad slug problem at the moment because growing
conditions are still poor.
Putting boards down so that slugs crawl underneath and can be picked up by
day may be an improvement to night-hunting. And I have used the biodynamic
method of spraying with a fairly smelly solution of death slugs with some
success. Also, planting out strong seedlings from modules instead of seeding
outside is a necessity in slug times I have found.
john
john
Have you tried diatomaceous earth? I hear they don't
like that stuff either since it's rough. Garden's
Alive sells it too.
I haven't tried the DE, but I have tried the beer
traps. I don't think they're worth it. I used plant
saucers and filled them with stale beer. It's
difficult to keep the container full. I also wonder
if it is actually attracting more slugs.
__________________________________________________
> If I remember right, DE is not labeled for use in the vegetable garden.
My DE isn't labeled at all. Why would it be inappropriate in the veggie
garden, Mz. Martin?
Oh, oh. Are you saying beer smells worse than dead slugs? Put 'em up, put
'em up....
> Raking up the soil surface lightly and disturbing/raking mulch and edgings
> in early spring can help reduce the slug population by disturbing the
> overwintered eggs and tiny babies. If you have ever seen snail eggs in an
> aquarium, the slug eggs are pretty similar, a sort of slimy deposit.
Come on, Barb. They look precisely like Osmocote. Remember, first the
coffee, then the computer. Margaret L
If I remember right, DE is not labeled for use in the vegetable garden. But
I have tried it on hostas, a tiny sprinkling right around the crown, and it
worked like a charm. One night was all it took. If you have scads of slugs
you would need to reapply after rain or watering.
I recently read somewhere about using plain sugar water in the traps, it
being possibly as effective (or ineffective I might say) as the beer. YMMV
Maybe it depends on the predilection for alcohol among the local slug
population ? Anyhow, I would rather not have bowls of stale beer all over
the place, it's too smelly.
Raking up the soil surface lightly and disturbing/raking mulch and edgings
in early spring can help reduce the slug population by disturbing the
overwintered eggs and tiny babies. If you have ever seen snail eggs in an
aquarium, the slug eggs are pretty similar, a sort of slimy deposit.
Barbara M. Martin
Current Mid-Atlantic Garden Report: "Hooked on Herbs"
http://nationalgardening.com/regional/report13.html
Now at Cottage Garden: "Voyeurs On Tour"
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/cottage_gardening/90967
Co-Owner, Gardens List http://www.kiva.net/~dorsettm/notes.html
--part1_1ac.258ab68.2a153290_boundary
In a message dated 5/16/02 8:43:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
martin@PA.ADELPHIA.NET writes:
I think it is the brewers yeast that attracts them. I had a major slug
problem one year and ended up going out into the garden every night for about
a week with a flashlight and just picking them off the plants and ground and
dumping them in the yeast traps I had made. I was amazed at the number I
killed but it did stop my problem with them. This probably isn't a good
method for those that are squeamish.
Jim K
--part1_1ac.258ab68.2a153290_boundary
In a message dated 5/16/02 8:43:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, martin@PA.ADELPHIA.NET writes:Maybe it depends on the predilection for alcohol among the local slug
population ? Anyhow, I would rather not have bowls of stale beer all over
the place, it's too smelly.
I think it is the brewers yeast that attracts them. I had a major slug problem one year and ended up going out into the garden every night for about a week with a flashlight and just picking them off the plants and ground and dumping them in the yeast traps I had made. I was amazed at the number I killed but it did stop my problem with them. This probably isn't a good method for those that are squeamish.
Jim K
--part1_1ac.258ab68.2a153290_boundary--
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C1FCD7.BC30D690
I use barbecue tongs to pick them up. And drop them in a bucket of soapy =
water. Twice I have moved into a house with a terrible slug problem. =
Both times, after one season of night hunting, stopping the use of =
typical suburban yard chemicals, and not watering at night, I never had =
the problem again. I did however see toads and birds and garter snakes. =
If you live in slug haven like the Pacific northwest, this might not be =
enough. But for me, it worked great.
Barbara M. Martin
Current Mid-Atlantic Garden Report: "Hooked on Herbs"
http://nationalgardening.com/regional/report13.html
Now at Cottage Garden: "Voyeurs On Tour"
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/cottage_gardening/90967
Co-Owner, Gardens List http://www.kiva.net/~dorsettm/notes.html
----- Original Message -----
From: James Kirker
To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: slug issues
In a message dated 5/16/02 8:43:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, =
martin@PA.ADELPHIA.NET writes:
Maybe it depends on the predilection for alcohol among the local =
slug
population ? Anyhow, I would rather not have bowls of stale beer =
all over
the place, it's too smelly.
I think it is the brewers yeast that attracts them. I had a major slug =
problem one year and ended up going out into the garden every night for =
about a week with a flashlight and just picking them off the plants and =
ground and dumping them in the yeast traps I had made. I was amazed at =
the number I killed but it did stop my problem with them. This probably =
isn't a good method for those that are squeamish.
Jim K
------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C1FCD7.BC30D690
--------------8B57F3E5BABD625125AB457D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did the same one year, Jim, and it is nasty, but I was plucking 1000 to 2000 every evening. They must go in waves. The beer does work, I was catching 100's of them in the beer, too, but I heard that beer yeast in sugar water does it too. I bought some beer yeast, but never got so bad again that I bothered with it. One alternative to saucers of beer is putting the beer in something like a vitamin bottle and laying it on it's side with the opening at ground level. susan James Kirker wrote: > In a message dated 5/16/02 8:43:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > martin@PA.ADELPHIA.NET writes: > > > >> Maybe it depends on the predilection for alcohol among the local slug >> population ? Anyhow, I would rather not have bowls of stale beer all over >> the place, it's too smelly. >> > > I think it is the brewers yeast that attracts them. I had a major slug problem > one year and ended up going out into the garden every night for about a week > with a flashlight and just picking them off the plants and ground and dumping > them in the yeast traps I had made. I was amazed at the number I killed but it > did stop my problem with them. This probably isn't a good method for those > that are squeamish. > Jim K --------------8B57F3E5BABD625125AB457D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did the same one year, Jim, and it is nasty, but I was plucking 1000 to 2000 every evening. They must go in waves. The beer does work, I was catching 100's of them in the beer, too, but I heard that beer yeast in sugar water does it too. I bought some beer yeast, but never got so bad again that I bothered with it. One alternative to saucers of beer is putting the beer in something like a vitamin bottle and laying it on it's side with the opening at ground level.
susan
James Kirker wrote: In a message dated 5/16/02 8:43:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, martin@PA.ADELPHIA.NET writes:
Maybe it depends on the predilection for alcohol among the local slug
population ? Anyhow, I would rather not have bowls of stale beer all over
the place, it's too smelly.
I think it is the brewers yeast that attracts them. I had a major slug problem one year and ended up going out into the garden every night for about a week with a flashlight and just picking them off the plants and ground and dumping them in the yeast traps I had made. I was amazed at the number I killed but it did stop my problem with them. This probably isn't a good method for those that are squeamish.
Jim K --------------8B57F3E5BABD625125AB457D--
I think it is perfectly appropriate in the veg garden, The main problem with
using it is the dust is hard on your lungs, so take care not to inhale it.
susan
Margaret Lauterbach wrote:
Laurie
Much too late to say this but it sounds as though your problem is
caused by the order you did things in - ramiel first and compost on
top. I do it the other way around and the slugs really seem to hate
it - just pull back the ramiel for sowing and push it back when
things sprout. I keep showing people my hostas this spring - only two
shoots have been damaged out of substantial clumps of a dozen
varieties.
kathryn
--Apple-Mail-2-351253397
format=flowed
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.
I think our climate is such that I'm never going to WIN the battle. For
one thing, there is no winter kill, they just carry on as usual through
our very mild winters. But I'm out there squishing them with twigs from
the mulch pile every evening anyway. I am watering just in the morning
or early afternoon to try and make the seed bed less of a haven, and
I've started using a bucket and hand watering instead of using the small
sprinkler. A little more effort, but not much so far. But the fog
comes in every night and waters for me again, so it's not staying dry
overnight, unfortunately. I have a beer trap in one area, but I'm not
impressed with less damage. An impressive number of slugs go in each
day though, so I just leave it there. In fact, I haven't used beer in
it for weeks, but just add a little water to the nasty dead slug residue
in the bottom. Seems to attract them all the same.
I haven't gotten the copper going yet, but I'm still anxious to try it
out. The slugs are also causing me to wonder about the survival uses of
an outer seed coat that sticks tightly for a few days and doesn't fall
off easily. When seeding in trays, I always find that annoying, and I'm
tempted to pry them off so the leaf will open up and get light.
However, I'm noticing that the seedlings that stay covered up for an
extra day or two in this heavy slug environment are in fact the ones
that survive. They get a bit taller before opening up, and they are
somehow less attractive to the slugs. I'm probably spending too much
time peering into the mulch:)
Regards, Laurie
Mill Valley, CA
--Apple-Mail-2-351253397
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.
I think our climate is such that I'm never going to WIN the battle.
For one thing, there is no winter kill, they just carry on as usual
through our very mild winters. But I'm out there squishing them with
twigs from the mulch pile every evening anyway. I am watering just in
the morning or early afternoon to try and make the seed bed less of a
haven, and I've started using a bucket and hand watering instead of
using the small sprinkler. A little more effort, but not much so far.
But the fog comes in every night and waters for me again, so it's not
staying dry overnight, unfortunately. I have a beer trap in one area,
but I'm not impressed with less damage. An impressive number of slugs
go in each day though, so I just leave it there. In fact, I haven't
used beer in it for weeks, but just add a little water to the nasty
dead slug residue in the bottom. Seems to attract them all the same.
I haven't gotten the copper going yet, but I'm still anxious to try it
out. The slugs are also causing me to wonder about the survival uses
of an outer seed coat that sticks tightly for a few days and doesn't
fall off easily. When seeding in trays, I always find that annoying,
and I'm tempted to pry them off so the leaf will open up and get
light. However, I'm noticing that the seedlings that stay covered up
for an extra day or two in this heavy slug environment are in fact the
ones that survive. They get a bit taller before opening up, and they
are somehow less attractive to the slugs. I'm probably spending too
much time peering into the mulch:)
Regards, Laurie
Mill Valley, CA
to pick them up. And drop them in a bucket of soapy water. Twice I
have moved into a house with a terrible slug problem. Both times,
after one season of night hunting, stopping the use of typical
suburban yard chemicals, and not watering at night, I never had the
problem again. I did however see toads and birds and garter snakes. If
you live in slug haven like the Pacific northwest, this might not be
enough. But for me, it worked great.
--Apple-Mail-2-351253397--
DE is hard on the intestines too if you get more than a tiny amount
in there. To my mind it should only ever be used with a mask and
personally I wouldn't have it anywhere in the garden. Like most
pesticides you need to be very careful to keep it away from children
and pets.
kathryn
Kathryn,
Thanks for the reply. It is a bit backwards. In my established beds, I
seeded the more normal way by pulling back the mulch. This new area,
however, was a mess of weeds, and very large, and I'd just had a big
load of ramiel chipped wood dumped from a tree taken down which used to
shade this area. I spread the mulch very thick to smother the weeds,
although I didn't have the newspaper on hand to put under so large an
area. I have got a few weeds poking up through the mulch here, by the
way, but I figure I may have been about 80% successful in smothering
them. So, moving the mulch aside would have meant hand weeding some
very tough stuff, and I wouldn't have been able to do enough to make a
bed for the number of sunflowers I want. I was looking for a no-dig
shortcut. Luckily I have enough seed from last year's crop that I can
overseed this area a few times if necessary until I get some healthy
sunflowers going. But I want to get the best method figured out because
I'd like to use the woodchips (along with some newspaper I've been
saving up) to make a border all the way around our back fence and do
additional sunflowers. This is an iron fence, with poles about six
inches apart and a creek behind with a lot of weeds, so I'm concerned
about slugs especially in that area. I've had somewhat better luck in
areas where I've used the newspaper. Perhaps that's making it harder
for the slugs to get in from other areas? It's an ongoing experiment,
so we'll see how it turns out:)
Regards, Laurie
Mill Valley, CA
When I gardened in a community bed several years ago in this same area,
I found that copper strips surrounding the beds worked extremely well,
as long as I kept them in good repair, and there weren't weeds bridging
over the barrier. So this weekend I'm off to get whatever copper
building supply is cheapest and make some individual collars for groups
of plants to see if it will work. I can then plant in stages and reuse
the same collars. Also at that time, I found that shredded redwood bark
(a common by-product that they sell around here in garden stores) seemed
to deter slugs to a great extent. And in the past few years, it seems
that fresh cocoa hulls have some sort of deterrent effect as well. A
bed that I mulched with cocoa hulls over newspaper this spring had very
little slug problem. Of course, it's a more dry area also. I'm
guessing that these sorts of mulches are in general less hospitable to
slugs sleeping during the day than the ramiel wood which is a fantastic
home for them. Ah well, the woodchips were free, and the others are
pricey.
Regards, Laurie
Mill Valley, CA
What about mounting copper pennies on some sort of substrate????? I only
suggest this as copper foil/tape is pretty expensive... dont know if will
work as pennies aren't pure copper but they sure are cheaper thn the
other.... the Cu foil wil set you back a buck($) a foot, that's from a
nursery supply ... if you get from building center it's sure to be more
expensive as it is thicker .
bille
who has solved his slug/snail problems w/ sluggo
When I gardened in a community bed several years ago in this same area,
I found that copper strips
Recently read that buying copper from those craft stores where they sell the
stuff for making those leaded lamps, is much cheaper than at the garden and
home centers
Hoooray for Sluggo!
Laurie, I can vouch for the need for newspaper under a thick layer of wood
chips. Even such as this can let light through, after a bit of foot traffic
moves the chips around. A couple sheets of newspaper blocks the light more
thoroughly and reliably than chips alone.
Additional fact, also based on recent experience: the Bermuda grass just
waits underneath for the newspaper to rot and the chips to shift; it then
bursts forth, happily nourished on all that tasty organic material.
Pat
Laurie
I wonder if Bill and Kevin's aluminium strip along the base of the
fence might be worth a try
I've never used it myself so I can't make any personal
recommendations. Its been raining hard here for the last 24 hours and
I think I've used the scissors on about a zillion slugs - though they
still haven't crossed the ramiel to get at the hostas and iris
sibiricas and candelabra primulas bed.
good luck
kathryn
Laurie
just be careful of cocoa shell mulch if there are dogs around - they
tend to try to eat it and it is poisonous to them - I found this out
the hard way
My slugs don't seem to like the ramiel as much as yours do - maybe
its a matter of what prunings are going in the shredder - mostly
willow with some hawthorn, plum and blackberry in this garden
kathryn
kathryn marsh wrote:
kathryn
With this timely warning, I would still like to suggest DE as an
effective way of protecting young seedlings from slug attack. I very
rarely get much trouble with these molluscs but on one occasion in
spring they were demolishing my newly-transplanted broccoli seedlings so
in desperation I surrouned each planrt with a circle of DE and had no
more trouble. I only applied it once, but by the time rain had washed it
into the soil the plants were big enough to look after themselves.
When I put the stuff on I opened the container only when the wind was
not blowing and spread it round with a teaspoon, which meant it had a
minimum chance of spreading dangerously into the air.
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata - at the Southern tip of North Island, NZ,
Lat 41??15'S, Long 174??58'E (Antipodes of Spain/Southern France)
kathryn marsh wrote:
kathryn
Must try this round my Arthropodiums and Hostas next spring, they look
so horrid with the leaves all brutalized. I have been lulled into false
security by two years of almost zero molluscs here, but after our wet
no-summer they have really got going again. The ancient celery, now
spotted and ready to go for compost is just full of baby snails and I
have even had a plague on my big glasshouse tomato, mostly of
individuals about the size of a pea or less. For three weeks or more I
was pulling them off a at the rate of between five and twenty a day
(after the first fifty I stopped keeping a total) but they gradually
tailed off and for a couple of weeks there have been none until
yesterday when I found a couple more stragglers. I was first alerted
when I found one mumbling its way across the surface of a nearly-ripe
fruit and ploughing an nasty furrow in the skin and when I looked around
they were just everywhere. I had been seeing slimy trails on several
adjacent geraniums and other plants for some time and had searched in
vain for the culprit, but I must say I didn't think of looking on the
tomato but was peering indside and around the pots..
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata - at the Southern tip of North Island, NZ,
Lat 41??15'S, Long 174??58'E (Antipodes of Spain/Southern France)
> What about mounting copper pennies on some sort of substrate?????
Might work - but copper pennies are actually cupro-nickel, not copper any more.
That ought to work Margaret!... only problem is paying retail for big
diameter copper pipe( it's not cheap either) But you'd certainly have the
copper around for alot longer than the tape.
I'm wondering if we can buy copper pipe that has a diameter of about two
inches, hacksaw it into two to three inch lengths, and use it for
transplanting seedlings, "foiling" cutworms and slugs who have big eyes for
our seedlings...Margaret L
> What about mounting copper pennies on some sort of substrate?????
I'm wondering if we can buy copper pipe that has a diameter of about two
inches, hacksaw it into two to three inch lengths, and use it for
transplanting seedlings, "foiling" cutworms and slugs who have big eyes for
our seedlings...Margaret L
I tried the pennies first, several weeks ago. They didn't particularly
work, although there might have been some help from them. I sent my
husband to the hardware store looking for the cheapest copper, and
unfortunately he came back with an $8 roll of the adhesive tape. I put
it to use, but I don't expect it to last through more than a season
since I've used it before with that result. I'm going to try a more
extensive hardware store and see if we can't find something along the
lines of copper tubing that I can make rings out of which will be
reuseable over several seasons. Well, at least half of the sunflowers
are protected for tonight at least.
Regards, Laurie
Mill Valley, CA
Margaret Lauterbach wrote:
In this country, copper is sometimes used for gutters and downspouting
(on the up-market homes - most use plastic!). Any form of copper is "not
cheap", but copper downspouting should be a reasonable price for a
length, and should be ideal for what you suggest.
Talk to your local plumber, or plumbers' supply merchant!
Tony
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata - at the Southern tip of North Island, NZ,
Lat 41??15'S, Long 174??58'E (Antipodes of Spain/Southern France)
