Dee Ewing on thu 5 may 05

Here in beautiful rainy northern California the slugs in my garden are
eating and multiplying into the millions!
I have put diatamacious(sp?) earth areoung my plants (washes away with the
rain),slug traps ( i think they eat and leave,drunk,off to multiply some
more) and resorted to allowing my son to squish them and fling them against
the garden shed,all to no avail.They crawl trhough the garden literally by
the thousands,leaving only sad little stumps of plants( or nothing but
slime) in their wake.

I am at my wits end. I don't want to resort to poison,and copper barrier
enough for my very large garden would run into hundreds of dollars.

Is there anything that eats them,any way to stop them?

Dee

Laurie Mandigo-Stoba & Ian Stoba on thu 5 may 05

I'm with you, ours are just as bad, not to mention the snails. This
week they don't even bother to take off during the day like usual, it's
been so wet they just saunter around the garden all day in full "sun".

I have been using Sluggo. I know there was some discussion here about
the full ingredients list on this product, but as far as I know it's
safe. The active ingredient is iron phosphate. I've seen some decline
in slug/snail populations where I've used it, and it at least gets me a
little space to get seedlings up. The larger garden is having to fend
for itself. At least the plants are looking wonderfully green and
vibrant from all the rain. Good luck with yours.

Regards, Laurie
Mill Valley, CA

Laura McKenzie on thu 5 may 05

Kimm, I've heard of coffee grounds but this one is new to me. I can't wait
to try it! Thank you.

Laura (whose slug problem isn't nearly as bad as Dee's)

Kimm Miller on thu 5 may 05

Dee wondered;

> Is there anything that eats them, any way to stop them?

Toads eat lots of slugs, birds also, but the method I use to keep them off
plants is to spray the plants with cold, caffienated coffee.

Kimm

Susan Setzler on thu 5 may 05

I use sluggo, too and have found it very effective, and if anyone cares
Mike McGrath endorses it, too.

susan

kimm on thu 5 may 05

Laura said;

> Kimm, I've heard of coffee grounds but this one is new to me. I can't
> wait
> to try it! Thank you.

As Katherine points out the cold, caffienated coffee will wash off, how soon
depends on your rain and watering schedule. But I have found it more
effective than the coffee grounds. Not sure if I have tougher, rougher slugs
here or not but I've seen the buggers crawl across a layer of coffee
grounds, but they stay away from the coffee sprayed plants, even long after
the rain might wash it off. I've also sprayed the buggers directly with that
coffee and watched them wriggle and writhe and die right before my eyes.

Kimm

JT Thompson on thu 5 may 05

> Kimm, I've heard of coffee grounds but this one is new to me. I can't wait
> to try it! Thank you.

There are also nematodes that you can buy and spray on your garden.
You spray these and they infect the slugs with a hideous disease for
the next six weeks, which gives the baby plants a chance to grow. In
theory, this allows the plants to get big enough that they're not
attractive to slugs.

Sue Jennings on thu 5 may 05

--0-1058097070-1115350665=:7336

Dee, I have said this on this list at least once. I have been successful. I never even got to get out in the garden this last year hardly at all until just recently, and my husband watered for me almost daily through the summer ( he didn't pull a weed, let alone look for insects ) . I was thankful for his help or I would have no gardens. But because I am a totally organic gardener, for years now, and have every spring gone out into my garden with a flash light around 11pm, 12pm, 1am and have squished any snails or slugs I have found, I now do not have a problem. In getting my peppers, eggplant and tomatoes starters planted last week, I found three snails stuck to an old 1 gal. container. That is it, and my yard is pretty much like a jungle in parts, due to being away from it for a year. Not one slug to be seen! The first few years I had to go out many times to get all of them and it was like a war. But every year there would be less and less and I would have to do my midnight
hikes less and less. I have not done one midnight hike this year - but I may soon to see if anyone is trying to move into my territory. My neighbors are semi - organic, in that they don't use pesticides (well one uses snail bait), but do use some chemical fertilizers and they said they have lots of slugs and snails this year! IMHO, I think that once your gardens are balanced and the beneficials are allowed to thrive, that in balance you won't have a problem with insects and most diseases. ( excluding my black spot - but there is a reason for that - excessive rain and no mulch or manure - and not enough water this last year ) On a happy note, my roses have made many new leaves and are looking much better - YEA! In fact the flower beds and veggies are looking quite good - just to brag to myself alittle. So we garden to sustain balance, beauty, good nutrition and our overall health. What better things could there be to do with our time?!
Happy gardeniing to all you wonderful souls, Sue
Plant Spirit Herbals in rainy again No. Calif.

Dee Ewing wrote:
Here in beautiful rainy northern California the slugs in my garden are
eating and multiplying into the millions!
I have put diatamacious(sp?) earth areoung my plants (washes away with the
rain),slug traps ( i think they eat and leave,drunk,off to multiply some
more) and resorted to allowing my son to squish them and fling them against
the garden shed,all to no avail.They crawl trhough the garden literally by
the thousands,leaving only sad little stumps of plants( or nothing but
slime) in their wake.

I am at my wits end. I don't want to resort to poison,and copper barrier
enough for my very large garden would run into hundreds of dollars.

Is there anything that eats them,any way to stop them?

Dee

--0-1058097070-1115350665=:7336

Here in beautiful rainy northern California the slugs in my garden are
eating and multiplying into the millions!
I have put diatamacious(sp?) earth areoung my plants (washes away with the
rain),slug traps ( i think they eat and leave,drunk,off to multiply some
more) and resorted to allowing my son to squish them and fling them against
the garden shed,all to no avail.They crawl trhough the garden literally by
the thousands,leaving only sad little stumps of plants( or nothing but
slime) in their wake.

I am at my wits end. I don't want to resort to poison,and copper barrier
enough for my very large garden would run into hundreds of dollars.

Is there anything that eats them,any way to stop them?

Dee

kathryn marsh on thu 5 may 05

Washes off Kimm. Never seen so many as we have this year, nor so big. And
this despite the fact that I've sprayed with nematodes and I'm finding
infected slugs under every stone, leaf, twig, clod of earth etc, etc. And
I'm going round with my scissors and torch every evening too. If only I
could persuade my husband to like escargots that would help with the snails
as well. Number two son was a busy hunter for a while after a year in
France but he's rarely back home these days

kathryn

kathryn marsh on thu 5 may 05

Nemaslug is still only available this side of the Atlantic JT. In normal
years it lasts much longer than six weeks since it doesn't infect all the
slugs at once and moves on to new hosts when its killed the old ones. This
year the slugs are growing faster than the nematodes.

k

Sue Jennings on fri 6 may 05

--0-870991532-1115430048=:7420

I just squish them with a board, the snails I throw to one spot and squish with the board. Use a stick to move slugs to a spot to squish them. They are gross to touch for sure. I have never heard of this fluke. Is it in certain countries, etc. ? Sue
Plant Spirit Herbals in No. Calif

JT Thompson wrote:

> Big negative point is that you can
> not be squeemish at all because you will have to handle millions of slugs by
> hand.

Well, you can use tongs or old chopsticks. Either way, be sure to
wash your hands thoroughly after handling slugs and snails, as they
can carry a fluke that can cause brain infections in humans. Very
nasty. Also a good reason to wash your salad in lots of salty water,
so you don't eat any.

--0-870991532-1115430048=:7420

At 22:48 +0100 06/05/2005, John D'hondt wrote:
>Big negative point is that you can
>not be squeemish at all because you will have to handle millions of slugs by
>hand.

Well, you can use tongs or old chopsticks. Either way, be sure to
wash your hands thoroughly after handling slugs and snails, as they
can carry a fluke that can cause brain infections in humans. Very
nasty. Also a good reason to wash your salad in lots of salty water,
so you don't eat any.

John D'hondt on fri 6 may 05

The fastest way to results is to kill loads of them. We used to walk the
garden with torch and a bucket and almost fill a bucket in a few hours. We
fed them to our ducks then next morning. Big negative point is that you can
not be squeemish at all because you will have to handle millions of slugs by
hand. If you have no use for them you can just kill them. (or drive a few
miles and tip them in someone elses garden as people seem to do with
rodents)
Next best way is to keep the place weeded fairly well to reduce shelter for
slugs and to put planks out on the ground. Slugs will take shelter
underneath this and you can turn the planks over at your leisure in daylight
and cut the ones you find in two or three if you have no ducks. You move the
planks around for major effect.

Then there is the way the biodynamic people work this : fill a jam jar with
slugs and place this in the hot sun until they are all dead and decomposing.
Use some of the liquid to dilute in a lot of water and spray this over your
plants. Some incinerate the slugs (live) and use the ashes to make a spray.

Eventually when you keep using compost and mulch and do all the things a
good organic gardener does you will notice the slug population declining
with a few species disappearing completely.

When they are as plentifull as you say I have found copper barriers useless.
John

JT Thompson on sat 7 may 05

> Big negative point is that you can
> not be squeemish at all because you will have to handle millions of slugs by
> hand.

Well, you can use tongs or old chopsticks. Either way, be sure to
wash your hands thoroughly after handling slugs and snails, as they
can carry a fluke that can cause brain infections in humans. Very
nasty. Also a good reason to wash your salad in lots of salty water,
so you don't eat any.

Susan Setzler on sat 7 may 05

I agree with that. I had a bad infestation one year and was killing
hundreds every night. I had beer traps out and caught 20 to 30 in each
of 20 or so traps, and also salted a good many. I think it eventually
reduces their population.

susan

JT Thompson on sat 7 may 05

> I just squish them with a board, the snails I throw to one spot and
> squish with the board. Use a stick to move slugs to a spot to
> squish them. They are gross to touch for sure.
> I have never heard of this fluke. Is it in certain countries, etc. ? Sue

I read a few years ago that three people a year died in Britain at
that stage from fluke caught by accidentally eating slugs on unwashed
salad. A quick Google found a few references to Taiwan and Africa -
people getting fluke from eating vegetables infected by the mucus of
infected slugs.

JT Thompson on sat 7 may 05

Eww, carnivorous snails!

http://www.abpwholesale.com/snail_destroyer.htm

Deanne Dale on sat 7 may 05

--0-2039210582-1115485951=:73086

These guys will do the trick, the decollate snails. I had to resort to using them to get rid of snails and slugs after doing almost everything mentioned here so far to save my previous herb and flower garden from them - they destroyed *everything*! When the snail and slug population was gone the decollates either went dorminant or died off, they didn't do any damage to the plants that I was ever able to detect.

Deanne

JT Thompson wrote:
Eww, carnivorous snails!

http://www.abpwholesale.com/snail_destroyer.htm

--0-2039210582-1115485951=:73086

Eww, carnivorous snails!

http://www.abpwholesale.com/snail_destroyer.htm

Susan Setzler on sat 7 may 05

I have no idea, I don't like any of them. We have mostly white ones.
and some so tiny they look like little seed pearls.

susan

Sue Jennings on sat 7 may 05

--0-285330198-1115493673=:28557

I live in No. Calif. where it would be devastating to the natural balance of things. This is not a natural snail. So, I will just recommend that people kill the offenders and garden naturally and eventually they will not have a problem. And I will WASH my homegrown lettuce better. Cheers, Sue
Plant Spirit Herbals in No. Calif.

JT Thompson wrote:
Eww, carnivorous snails!

http://www.abpwholesale.com/snail_destroyer.htm

--0-285330198-1115493673=:28557

Eww, carnivorous snails!

http://www.abpwholesale.com/snail_destroyer.htm

JT Thompson on sat 7 may 05

> I agree with that. I had a bad infestation one year and was killing
> hundreds every night. I had beer traps out and caught 20 to 30 in each
> of 20 or so traps, and also salted a good many. I think it eventually
> reduces their population.

One question: I find lots of the big leopard-spotted slugs, but
hesitate to kill them because I'm told that they're good for eating
up debris, whereas the little black keely fellows are the ones that
gobble the plants. What's the OGL feeling about this?

Sue Jennings on sat 7 may 05

--0-85190861-1115506545=:15118

But it said on the web site not to use in No. Calif. Sue

Deanne Dale wrote:These guys will do the trick, the decollate snails. I had to resort to using them to get rid of snails and slugs after doing almost everything mentioned here so far to save my previous herb and flower garden from them - they destroyed *everything*! When the snail and slug population was gone the decollates either went dorminant or died off, they didn't do any damage to the plants that I was ever able to detect.

Deanne

JT Thompson wrote:
Eww, carnivorous snails!

http://www.abpwholesale.com/snail_destroyer.htm

--0-85190861-1115506545=:15118

Deanne Dale on sat 7 may 05

--0-679658669-1115525782=:64753

Sorry - forgot to mention that this was in Los Angeles. The snails that devour the gardens there aren't native - someone's great idea of importing and 'farming' them for eating that went badly awry. I haven't had trouble with them up here. Down there they literally devoured the entire garden, except for the woodier things - shrubs, bamboo and mature trees.

Deanne

Sue Jennings wrote:
But it said on the web site not to use in No. Calif. Sue

Deanne Dale wrote: These guys will do the trick, the decollate snails. I had to resort to using them to get rid of snails and slugs after doing almost everything mentioned here so far to save my previous herb and flower garden from them - they destroyed *everything*! When the snail and slug population was gone the decollates either went dorminant or died off, they didn't do any damage to the plants that I was ever able to detect.

Deanne

JT Thompson wrote:
Eww, carnivorous snails!

http://www.abpwholesale.com/snail_destroyer.htm

--0-679658669-1115525782=:64753

But it said on the web site not to use in No. Calif.  Sue

Deanne Dale <dkdale@SBCGLOBAL.NET> wrote:

These guys will do the trick, the decollate snails.   I had to resort to using them to get rid of snails and slugs after doing almost everything mentioned here so far to save my previous herb and flower garden from them - they destroyed *everything*!   When the snail and slug population was gone the decollates either went dorminant or died off, they didn't do any damage to the plants that I was ever able to detect.

 

Deanne

 

JT Thompson <jtthompson@EIRCOM.NET> wrote:

Eww, carnivorous snails!

http://www.abpwholesale.com/snail_destroyer.htm

John D'hondt on sat 7 may 05

Limnea sp. are co hosts for liver fluke here but you could never get the
fluke from touching the snail. Also this particular snail you will never
find in your garden eating vegies unless you have been floaded very badly
for a very long time that is.:)) Most infections of humans in Ireland take
place by eating wild water cress.
john

John D'hondt on sat 7 may 05

> I read a few years ago that three people a year died in Britain at
> that stage from fluke caught by accidentally eating slugs on unwashed
> salad.

I doubt the veracity of this very much. Maybe because of this we never ever
wash salad. (we only eat stuff fresh from our own garden)
Another thought that struck me was that this is maybe the chemical industry
trying to push growers into using more pesticides. Here in Ireland one could
claim thousands in compensation if one claimed to be grossed out by an
actual life slug in a lettuce.

> A quick Google found a few references to Taiwan and Africa -
> people getting fluke from eating vegetables infected by the mucus of
> infected slugs.

The fluke larvae leave the slug when they are ready and sit on a vegetable
waiting to be eaten by a host. In these countries I would take extra
precautions too and not just against fluke.
john

John D'hondt on sat 7 may 05

> One question: I find lots of the big leopard-spotted slugs, but
> hesitate to kill them because I'm told that they're good for eating
> up debris, whereas the little black keely fellows are the ones that
> gobble the plants. What's the OGL feeling about this?

I don't know the scientific name of the big leopard-spotted slugs ofhand but
they may be fairly typical for Ireland.
These snails are indeed innocent but nevertheless unbelievable. They eat
mostly moss and algae that grow on all surfaces except perhaps to the south.
They leave a grazing pattern that is beautifull and very artistic.
So far for the good news :)) If we leave a top window open they come inside
in amazing numbers. Leave some dirty dishes on the sink and these felows (up
to 8 inches long) help cleaning them. And a normal person would never even
suspect. They move in as soon as the family retires for the night and they
are long gone at first light. Some may be living underneath the sink but
most cover a fair distance from outside, up the wall, through the open
window and down the wall into the sink in not that many minutes.
Immagine 60-70 of those brutes and I suppose most people would scream but
that is the sight that greets people in rural Ireland when they get up in
the middle of the night.
Funny that you would be washing lettuce and then have vast hordes of big
slugs marching over anything they can reach. Good thing that these slugs do
not carry flukes>
john

MARGARET LAUTERBACH on sun 8 may 05

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What disease is transmitted in that way? Thanks, Margaret L

Limnea sp. are co hosts for liver fluke here but you could never get =
the
fluke from touching the snail. Also this particular snail you will =
never
find in your garden eating vegies unless you have been floaded very =
badly
for a very long time that is.:)) Most infections of humans in Ireland =
take
place by eating wild water cress.
john

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Tony and Moira Ryan on sun 8 may 05

JT Thompson wrote:

> Eww, carnivorous snails!

> http://www.abpwholesale.com/snail_destroyer.htm

There is an unusually large carnivorous snail native to NZ! Very rarely
seen by most people however, since it only lives in dense bush, and is
apparently not common anyway.

Tony
--
Tony & Moira Ryan,
Wainuiomata, North Island, NZ. Pictures of our garden at:-
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cherie1/Garden/TonyandMoira/index.htm
NEW PICTURES AND DIAGRAMS ADDED 20/Feb/2005

Mary Ann Mikulski on sun 8 may 05

In a message dated 5/8/05 3:05:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dhondt@EIRCOM.NET
writes:

<< Funny that you would be washing lettuce and then have vast hordes of big
slugs marching over anything they can reach. Good thing that these slugs do
not carry flukes> >>

How does a slug march with one foot, right, right, right, right ....?

Mary Ann

Mary Ann Mikulski on sun 8 may 05

In a message dated 5/8/05 3:05:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dhondt@EIRCOM.NET
writes:

<< The fluke larvae leave the slug when they are ready and sit on a vegetable
waiting to be eaten by a host. In these countries I would take extra
precautions too and not just against fluke. >>

Is this the same fluke our long-absent Irish-American Dane is zapping herself
against?

Mary Ann

Sue Jennings on sun 8 may 05

--0-1315879604-1115604160=:33974

Thanks Kathryn. Now I can eat my lettuce with a calm mind that what comes out of my garden is good and healthy. Sue
Plant Spirit Herbals in rainyagain, No. Calif.

Kathryn Marsh wrote:
The UK fluke deaths are from two causes. One, as John has said, are the
liver fluke deaths caused by eating wild water cress on which the tiny
water snail that carries the fluke has laid eggs which have then encysted.
These deaths are very rare indeed -
The almost invisible number of people who die in the UK
from a brain infection caused by fluke are those who have contracted
billharzia in Africa, Asia or South America. Once again it is carried by a
water snail and in this case you have to get in the water with a skin
lesion to contract it.
I'm sure it really is absolutely safe to use your hands to kill slugs -
unpleasant but safe

--0-1315879604-1115604160=:33974

Sue Jennings on sun 8 may 05

--0-1298893652-1115604483=:69867

We haven;t heard from Carol for a very long time. I was thinking that the other day. Sue

Mary Ann Mikulski wrote:

<< The fluke larvae leave the slug when they are ready and sit on a vegetable
waiting to be eaten by a host. In these countries I would take extra
precautions too and not just against fluke. >>

Is this the same fluke our long-absent Irish-American Dane is zapping herself
against?

Mary Ann

--0-1298893652-1115604483=:69867

kathryn marsh on sun 8 may 05

The UK fluke deaths are from two causes. One, as John has said, are the
liver fluke deaths caused by eating wild water cress on which the tiny
water snail that carries the fluke has laid eggs which have then encysted.
These deaths are very rare indeed - you know your liver is sick a long time
before it kills you. Most people who are wild water cress eaters and die do
so because they can't tell the difference between water cress and water
hemlock. Nasty. The almost invisible number of people who die in the UK
from a brain infection caused by fluke are those who have contracted
billharzia in Africa, Asia or South America. Once again it is carried by a
water snail and in this case you have to get in the water with a skin
lesion to contract it. Because the schistosoma parasite grows in the walls
of blood vessels so very, very occasionally an encysted egg can get carried
to the brain and even more rarely it can trigger a brain infection and if
you are really unlucky and don't get the right anitibiotic fast enough it
can kill. This is so rare it nearly always hits the medical literature.
These flukes are all snail born, not slug born. I think we are getting
mixed up with Dr Hulda Clarke's theories again and I seem to remember that
most of us have pretty strong views on the theories of Dr Hulda Clarke. I'm
sure it really is absolutely safe to use your hands to kill slugs -
unpleasant but safe

kathryn - off outside with her scissors again

JT Thompson on sun 8 may 05

> How does a slug march with one foot, right, right, right, right ....?

Right, right, right, right, duck for dinner today!

kathryn marsh on mon 9 may 05

Yes!
She's in good form by the way. Despite the zapping. And has six flowers out
at once on her currently blooming amaryllis - the photo was gorgeous

k

John D'hondt on mon 9 may 05

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------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C554E2.06536D40

Fasciola hepatica, liver fluke. This really is a zo=F3nose, a disease =
normally carried by grazing animals like sheep, goats and cattle but =
most mammals can get it if they eat infected plants. It is only to be =
found in wet areas.john
What disease is transmitted in that way? Thanks, Margaret L

Limnea sp. are co hosts for liver fluke here but you could never get =
the
fluke from touching the snail. Also this particular snail you will =
never
find in your garden eating vegies unless you have been floaded very =
badly
for a very long time that is.:)) Most infections of humans in =
Ireland take
place by eating wild water cress.
john

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What disease is transmitted in that way?  Thanks, Margaret =
L

style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

 

>
Limnea sp. are =
co hosts
for liver fluke here but you could never get the
fluke from =
touching the
snail. Also this particular snail you will never
find in your =
garden
eating vegies unless you have been floaded very badly
for a very =
long
time that is.:)) Most infections of humans in Ireland take
place =
by
eating wild water
cress.
john