Anything that travels(spreads) via underground runners/slolons
will have a worse time of it if adequate lime to boost the bacteria
level(they love calcium) Trick is to get it to rot decompose before it
breaks the surface again, the lime helps here
dont go more than ten pounds per 100 ft sq tho.
billevans
the lime (not the burnt stuff!)pusher
Thank you Pat for responding! I thought I had gotten rid of the roots
last year. At which time I braved the itch and pulled and dug, with a
completely covered body. Except for my forehead, yes, for weeks red
spots of intense itching, my third eye was visible.
It has come back full force as if I propagated the beast. It is
growing in my hedge row. I will brave the pulling again, with your
suggestion of socks as well, and a bandana on the brow. Then try
smothering with a heavy layer of oak leaves? Any other suggestions? I
truely don't want this to be an annual event!
Thanks again
Mary zoned in 5
Rodale's Encyc. of OG says, in referring to USDA bulletins, that "the main
control methods described are cultivating, mowing or cutting, grubbing out
roots, spraying, or smothering. A most effective way of eradicating young
plants is to put on a long-sleeved jacket and leather gloves and pull them
out by hand, as fast as they disappear, destroying the roots."
If you have an isolated patch, mowing sounds good. Repeated mowings would
prevent the plant from getting nourishment to the roots and eventually the
plants would die out.
Smothering is recommended under trees or along fences where it might be
difficult to mow.
Vines growing up fences or trees can by cut near the ground and, several
days later, pull out the wilted plants.
We have poison ivy growing everywhere on our property. I grub out the
roots. In addition to the long-sleeved shirt and leather gloves, I add
another piece of protective clothing. I have an old pair of socks with the
toe end cut off; I pull these tubes over my hands (before putting on the
gloves!) to cover the back of my hands, the wrists, and lower forearms. I
had had several bouts of inflammation on my forearms before I noticed that
when I was pulling out vines the shirt would move about, exposing the wrist
area.
Where the poison ivy encroaches on the lawn, I still grub out the vines
rather than mow them when we cut the grass. This avoids poison ivy being
mixed in with grass clippings or with anything thing else that we might
later touch with our bare hands (since we often work without gloves).
The poison ivy is dumped in one place at the far edge of our property,
again, so it is not mixed in with anything else that we might touch. We
regard that pile with the same respect one would accord a nuclear waste site
(what is the half-life of poison ivy?).
Oh, yes, one another point, from Rodale: "If plants are burned, do not
stand in the smoke because the infection-causing oils may stick to particles
of soot and be carried to the skin." I have also heard that one can breath
in the vapors and be infected internally, but I don't know if this is true.
Good luck,
Pat
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: More Garden Babble/poison ivy help??
> Hello everybody,
> I have a healthy crop of poison ivy. Would like to destroy the
mass.
Goats are supposed to be good ivy eaters, and immune to the ill effects---
Composting for at least a month in an active pile should do in the evil ivy
oils---
Disposable coveralls, gloves, Technu soap and Ivy Block lotion are all
helpful adjuncts to removing the ivy....get it all, root and branch!
Frank---Mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivy, a kid'll
eat ivy too, why not get two?...:-)
Yes - one can get poison ivy internally by breathing the smoke.
In fact, one can die by breathing the smoke.
There's one fellow locally - the son of a farmer - who die a few years
back because of this. The sad part is, it wasn't even burning on his
property.
R.
Robert, thanks for the clarification....but what a sad story.
Pat
Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: poison ivy help
Mary, this is only our first year on this property, so I don't know how
successful my efforts at removal will ultimately be. I'm not sanguine, as
already new shoots are popping up. Getting it all is difficult.
We might consider Bill Evans' advice on the lime.
Frank mentions disposable clothing. I have read and heard that normal
washing of clothes does NOT remove the oils, but my experience demonstrates
otherwise. I've practically been rolling in the stuff sometimes. When I'm
finished I walk into the kitchen and immediately throw all my outer
garments, including the gloves, into the washer. Subsequent handling and
wearing of these same garments hasn't produced a single itch. Yet. (And I
AM allergic to the stuff.)
I wear sunglasses outside. They protect my eyes from stray debris, as well
as hinder any thoughtless attempt to scratch near my eyes. I find that
wearing gloves also stops me from touching my face; whereas when I work
bare-handed I never think twice about scratching or pushing away stray hair
or swatting a bug.
I know that Rodale suggests smothering; how many inches of mulch required is
another matter. In one area where this stuff is growing, the vines are
running under several inches of mulch.
You know, I guess, the Myth of Sisyphus. That's how I feel about my efforts
to get rid of poison ivy and honeysuckle vines.
Pat
Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: poison ivy help
Pat, Mary, Group:
You certainly get an internal reaction to poison ivy (oak, sumac...)
by breathing the smoke. The same histamine-producing
poisons are present in the smoke and ash as in the original plant. As one
who can react to Rhul poisons by walking within 100-yards of a patch, I can
attest to the fact that you _really_ don't want an internal case of poison
anything.
Depending on your zoning regulations and amount of land, I recommend
getting a goat. Several years ago I raised dairy goats on about 40-acres
which was 10% poison ivy. The goats would kill each other to get to the
stuff! They love it (and it doesn't seem to effect the milk, either). When
he is finished with your patch, you can always rent him out to neighbors (if
you have it, so do they).
Walker Bennett
A fool and his money are better than no date at all!
Rodale's Encyc. of OG says, in referring to USDA bulletins, that "the main
control methods described are cultivating, mowing or cutting, grubbing out
.
.
.
.
The poison ivy is dumped in one place at the far edge of our property,
again, so it is not mixed in with anything else that we might touch. We
regard that pile with the same respect one would accord a nuclear waste site
(what is the half-life of poison ivy?).
Oh, yes, one another point, from Rodale: "If plants are burned, do not
stand in the smoke because the infection-causing oils may stick to particles
of soot and be carried to the skin." I have also heard that one can breath
in the vapors and be infected internally, but I don't know if this is true.
Good luck,
Pat
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: More Garden Babble/poison ivy help??
> Hello everybody,
> I have a healthy crop of poison ivy. Would like to destroy the
mass.
bille asked:
> And when did I recommend (just) this? Arent you leaving out something?
Sorry, Bill, I didn't mean to imply that you were recommending only this.
In the Bermuda discussion your mention of Ca reminded me that you had a
regimen for getting rid of other nuisances which also *included,* but was
not limited to, Ca. In bringing up the PI again, I was merely harking back
to those earlier posts, not attempting to reproduce the regimen in its
entirety.
As I said, since that time I've been mulling over ways to discourage the PI
and the JH from living here without, in the process, killing off everything
else that lives contentedly in our soil of generally pH 5.7. That's why I
wondered about your experiences: were you successful in getting rid of
Bermuda and other undesirables by sweetening the soil? were these
undesirable plants or grasses growing in isolation or among other plantings?
what effect did the change in pH have on these other things, if any?
Another thing I have to think about is what will take the place of the PI
and the JH, assuming I work in only one small area at a time. Picture a
stand of young trees in an area about 30' by 30'. JH is strangling the
upper growth and PI is the ground cover for the entire area. By whatever
means, I get rid of the PI and JH. Then what? Something's got to be there
on the ground, otherwise the PI and JH will run in from the adjoining areas.
Unless, of course, the soil pH really does beat them back..... Joel
mentioned that forage grasses would find conditions hospitable. Wouldn't
they be a preferable alternative, or would they bring their own set of
problems?
(Joel, I can picture the fertilizing and mowing that you suggest, but I
can't imagine the burning part. Burning PI?)
> Just make sure you get "base saturation percentages" for Ca, Mg, K, Na( in
additoin to other tests,,, and not just NPK,Ph
Am making a note of it.
Here is one post of yours that I saved on the subject. Yeah, I know it's
three years old. When I mull over something, I *really* mull over
it....I've been removing PI and JH mechanically in the interim, but the fun
has gone out of this method.....
Pat
Anything that travels(spreads) via underground runners/slolons
will have a worse time of it if adequate lime to boost the bacteria
level(they love calcium) Trick is to get it to rot decompose before it
breaks the surface again, the lime helps here
dont go more than ten pounds per 100 ft sq tho.
billevans
the lime (not the burnt stuff!)pusher
Hello Patricia,
I recommend that you take a look at the following web sites.
http://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/vine/toxrad/index.html
http://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/vine/lonjap/index.html
http://www.uscs.edu/academic/colla&s/herbarium/weeds.htm
The first two sites provide detailed information about the ecology of
japanese honeysuckle and poison ivy. The third is a general overview of the
ecology of weedy species.
PI is native to the eastern US and is growing on your property because the
ecological conditions are appropriate. The report on poison ivy indicates
that PI grows on soils that range from acid to mildly alkaline so I don't
think that liming is going to have a directly inhibitory effect.
My recommendation is for you to develop a network of mowed pathways and not
try to eliminate PI or JH from the rest of the property.
Fires are a normal part of the ecology of natural ecosystems and are
currently used by restoration ecologists to reduce the presence of many
invasive species... however I just read that PI is relatively tolerant of
fire...
I encourage you to try to think like a poison ivy plant :->
Joel
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> I encourage you to try to think like a poison ivy plant :->
Well:), I don't remember what list I was on, something spiritual(not
organized religion), but someone on that list said that poison ivy grows
on land that is sick. ?? I think she meant that in a spiritual way???
Joel, I printed out the two articles on PI and JH, as they are extremely
informative. While the information does not alter the *framework* in which
we've been considering making changes to our property, it definitely does
change our *perspective* on the value and use of these two species. By that
I mean that we're still asking the same questions, but now we have some
quite different answers.
I would say, though, that despite its being a highly palatable browse for
white-tailed deer, I would still wish to eradicate JH owing to its habit of
distorting, and ultimately smothering, everything around which it entwines
itself. Wishing is one thing, however, and reality is another. The JH
grows with the PI; eradicating the former would, as far as I can see right
now, eradicate the latter, and eradicating PI is not necessarily in the best
interests of the wildlife on this property.
An aside: many folks around here with well-manicured lawns, foundation
plantings, and a few island plantings, complain that the deer eat all their
ornamentals, but that problem is almost nonexistent for us. I've always
wondered why. Now I suspect that the deer never need to venture close to
our house, where the ornamentals are, because they are content enough in the
wooded areas at the edges of the property, woods thick with PI and JH on the
ground and in the trees. And of course we don't bother them (the deer)
because we can't enter those wooded areas for nine months out of the year.
"Think like a poison ivy plant," you said. Let's see: competitive,
aggressive, voracious, sneaky, heedless of others... Oh wait, that's how PI
looks from *my* perspective. OK, tomorrow I go out, lie on the ground and
look up at the sky, and think about what it would be like to be the PI in
the article you recommended......
Many thanks for the links and for your thoughtful advice on living with PI.
Pat
Patricia Ruggiero wrote:
don't count on that to keep them out of a garden. We have a poison ivy farm
here, and the deer still come in and eat everything else. I wish they would eat
the PI
I have heard that deer are genetically programed to eat in the same place. I
believe that because some people around here have problems and others not. i
know one woman who can grow day lilies in her front yard, but not her back
because of the deer. I can't grow them anywhere. I never get to see the color
they eat the buds so fast.
susan
Isn't this only in the winter, when they are hungry? Do they have buds in winter?
At least in upper New York State where I grew up, the deer come mostly in the very coldest months, January and February, as snow covers the grass and there are no more leaves. But March or April we don't see them in the city any longer. People used to buy grain and stuff and feed them, because we were afraid they would die, and they had just had their young ones.
Carol
Susan wrote:
"Don't count on that to keep them out of a garden. We have a poison ivy farm
here, and the deer still come in and eat everything else. I wish they would
eat the PI."
OK, so we won't get complacent! Couldn't help wondering, though, if the PI
was the reason we were so lucky compared to others in the neighborhood. The
deer do have a track through our yard, in the southern section, that moves
them from the east woods to the center woods. Maybe that's the "same place"
they keep returning to. Or maybe it's our attack cats that keep them at
bay.......
Did that late frost affect you? All my sweet potato vines were hit but not
enough to kill them; looks like new growth is coming on. Husband lost two
pepper plants, mild compared to some who lost them all.
Pat
Fluvanna County, Virginia, zone 7
I'm not sure if this is reliable information but a park service
anthropologist once told me that the Cherokee would cultivate poison ivy to
lure enemies near. They would then set the patch afire and run like crazy.
I had a neighbor burn poison ivy once and I had it systemically as a
result.... not at all good. I was very ill.
We pull it and put it in our piles that set for about two years (brush
piles mostly). After two years of composting I figure its safe and so far
I've been right : )
Tara, I'll have to answer the planting questions later. I'm not feeling
that great today and my head is fuzzier than usual so I'll wait until I know
I can make sense.
Laura
Tara, this is a link that Joel sent me a couple years ago; it's for the
report that I mentioned yesterday. Understanding how and where the plant
grows aids greatly in managing, or possible eradicating, it.
I, along with probably everyone else on this List, question the wisdom of
burning it, despite what the report says.
Pat
