None of these is reliably hardy in most of Ireland - although it may
well be that John could grow them, or even Jane since she too is in a
comparatively warm pocket with urban heat gain as well as the sea.
They wouldn't last five minutes in my frost pocket.
I suspect you are watching the series on Heligon - this isn't the
programme I was referring to which was a one off. A trip to Cornwall
is way up my visiting priorities for both Heligon and the Eden
Project. But not until the British have sorted out foot and mouth
since there are lots of sheep around us and I don't want to be the
one who brings it back into Ireland. I was in the area that was
depopulated to get rid of it on Saturday and I don't want to see all
those empty fields around us here .
Have you ever thought of experimenting with all these Kiwi plants
John? wouldn't make it through here.
kathryn
Kathryn and Moira
> D antarctica is in fact Australian and seems surprisingly hardy in view
> of its range which is right from Queensland southwards, but I see it
> does also manage to survive Tasmania which does mean I suppose it must
> be fairly frost-proof.
We have D antarctica growing in our paddocks, mostly in damp gullies
and with high overhead shade from eucalypts. However, one plant does
grow on a cleared and quite exposed hillside (although with bracken
around it), and what always surprises me is not that it copes with
our frosts (can be down to -10C) but that it survives the sun and
exposure. It does look rather tatty in comparison with those in the
damp and shade, but it's been there for at least the 20 years we've
been here.
--
Shelley Harvey
Northern Tablelands of NSW
Australia
email: sharvey@pobox.une.edu.au
Actually it is most prolific in Tasmania, Moira. It is found at sea-level
and up to 1000m, where we have snow for at least 6 weeks of the year. It is
common in shaded, damp areas of Tasmanian gardens, harvested from areas
destined for logging.
Regards,
Aidan
mail to:abindoff@ozemail.com.au
kathryn marsh wrote:
D antarctica is in fact Australian and seems surprisingly hardy in view
of its range which is right from Queensland southwards, but I see it
does also manage to survive Tasmania which does mean I suppose it must
be fairly frost-proof.
The two species we were seeing on our walk are probably the commonest
around here- Cyathea dealbata (silver fern) and c medullaris (black fern
or Mamaku). There are others including a smallish and rather scruffy
Dickensonia down in the local forest park, but not around our neck of
the woods. These are the pick of the NZ bunch and commonly cultivated,
as well as being dead common in the wild. I see Botanica describes the
silver fern as marginally hardy, but this is the first time I ever
remember seeing it worried by winter. It was a great relief to see new
fronds just beginning to unfold from almost all the crowns as some of
the afflicted ones were already about 7 or 8m high and would take quite
a time to replace. The Mamaku is a truely magnficent species, Botanica
says it can reach 15m (50 ft) or even more. I haven't ever seen quite
such a tall one, but the fronds are always quite stupendous. It moreover
drops them tidily when dead, leaving a very handsomly marked trunk,
which adds to the effect.
The best use of it I ever saw was in a hillside garden where a lawn
below the house ended in natural bush and there was a group of around
five just at the edge against a relatively dark foliage background.
Saw a British garden restoration programme on TV
I am watching this myself at present on a local channel which
specializes in reruns. I have just seen the section deling with the
reopening of the "jungle" but don't remmber the grafting. Perhaps this
is still to come. Also surviving in the area I was delighted to see a
nice big NZ Totara. This is undoubtedly the toughest of our podocarps
and is often seen growing in pretty difficult situations. if anything
could survive such neglect successfully _it_ could.
> which is the Nikau palm? don't know if anyone grows it here by that name
Rhopalostylis sapida, one of three species endemic to NZ and a couple of
neighbouring islands. The most southerly palm known. Botanica gives its
zones as 10-11 and says it needs a frost-free site, but it grows
naturally dowm in our local forest park which is certainly not entirely
frost-free, and in gardens in the main Hutt valley in which the temp
could fall some years to minus two or three degrees C. Probably though
in each of these sites it gets some protction from neighbouring
vegetation (unlike those poor ferns which were right out in the open).
The only place where I have seem tall ones peeping over the forest
canopy was out on the weast coast where they probably do escape frost.
Such very tall ones are apprently very old and mark one of the very rare
places in our area where the original forest has never been cut.
The ones around Wellington must be right on the southern end of their
range, I think. There is quite a concentration of them also in one site
on a small lake in NW Nelson on the extreme north tip of South Island,
but they are actually north of us here due to the marked overlap of the
two islands.
I haven't heard what happened to the ones in the park during the great
frost and don't expect to visit there until probably around Christmas
when the picnic and tramping season gets under way.
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand, SW Pacific. 12 hours ahead of Greenwich Time
Kathryn,
This may be a case of the grass always looking greener on the far away
hills. Kealanine where I live is almost arctic compared to county Dublin.
Our blackberries are maturing now! Friends at an elevation just 200 feet
below ours have been picking them for two months.
Just a few miles away (in Bantry it is on average 5C warmer than on this
mountain) it seems to be no problem to grow palms.
Shelley Harvey wrote:
Hi Shelly
I think most ferns will survive quite a bit of frost if they do have
overhead shelter. I don't think nature meant them to grow in the open,
though they do surprisingly survive in NZ in quite a few places where
the tree cover has been removed giving the appearence of an entire fern
forest rising out of low scrub.
I am sure you are right and that hot conditions in summer can be far
more trying for any fern than a winter frost.
I remember when we first came here nearly 50 years ago most people had
no idea how to grow native plants and many the poor tree fern was dumped
in the middle of an unshaded lawn as a specimen tree. Needless to say
the casualty rate was high. Luckily for the ferns folks are much more
knowledgeable today and well planned native gardens are quite common.
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand, SW Pacific. 12 hours ahead of Greenwich Time
Aidan Bindoff wrote:
Hi Aiden
I see from Botanica it _is_ grown in NZ, though I don't remember having
come across it myself, and is officially classified as hardier than the
Cyatheas (zone 8 instead of 9 at the lower end), These latter are more
popular here than the local Dicksonias, which are a slighly scruffy lot
in my opinion, not anything like so handsome as D antarctica appears to
be from the description.
The ferns which I described in my original posting as badly frost
damaged were all Cyatheas. There are Dicksonias (native ones) in our
local forest park but I have not yet been down there this spring to see
how they have fared.
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand, SW Pacific. 12 hours ahead of Greenwich Time
Our blackberries aren't ripe yet either John. County Dublin is, like
West Cork, a wildly varying collection of microclimates. I got my
last frost in June and my first in August with a couple of nights of
real belters last week that persuaded the fuchsias that winter had
arrived. Leaves are turning nicely. I was down near Jane today and
the gardens still looked like high summer to me - though I'm sure
she'll tell you different.
Its the usual problem of organic smallholders not being able to
afford to buy the famous south facing deep silt soil the books tell
us we need. Me I'm in a cold, north facing boulder clay over gravel
with major winter flooding. Takes much more creativity
kathryn
Interesting, John. In upstate New York, where I am from, you pick blackberries already in July (wild ones). In Denmark usually September 1st, though it was early last year and this year August 15th. I'm still picking!
Carol
My God! In Denmark as far as I remember the last frost is always either in February or March (mostly March, admittedly) and the first never comes before October. How can that be, aside from my being 6 km. from the coast? (I am sure it is colder inland as my younger daughter is growing some of my great blackberries and they weren't ripe at all in early September.)
Does the Gulf Stream hit Denmark as well as Ireland and England? In any case I am over by the Baltic and I'm pretty sure it doesn't get this far!
Curious Carol
kathryn marsh wrote:
Gee only two months, that sounds like our Central Otago. Many years my
garden sees at least seven frost-free months in the year.
Moira
--
Tony & Moira Ryan
Wainuiomata, New Zealand, SW Pacific. 12 hours ahead of Greenwich Time
> My God! In Denmark as far as I remember the last frost is always either in
February or March (mostly March, admittedly) and the first never comes
before October. How can that be, aside from my being 6 km. from the coast?
(I am sure it is colder inland as my younger daughter is growing some of my
great blackberries and they weren't ripe at all in early September.)
> Does the Gulf Stream hit Denmark as well as Ireland and England? In any
case I am over by the Baltic and I'm pretty sure it doesn't get this far!
> Curious Carol
It has been said that Ireland has no climate but only weather. Nothing is
surer than that one can not be sure of the weather here. One can experience
"hot" sunshine followed by a snowstorm only minutes appart. And night-frost
is possible in just about any month.
On the other hand it can be very nice to work in the garden in January in
just a T shirt and short pants.
John
Lucky you (and most Danes) who can work with little clothing. I just get cold if I try it before it is at least 25C!
But I remember many lunches outdoors even in February and often in March due to a fluke in the weather bringing a few hours of spring! Those were the days when 15C was spring.
Carol
Carol, you wait for a tropical heat-wave before you strip?
I do not think that we reach 25C here in most years. But there is another
thing. I gave up smoking some 8 or 9 months ago and it as made all the
difference in feeling warm. In the last week I have worked through gales and
driving rain in a short sleeved T shirt and I never felt cold. I am very
sure that it would have felt harsh if I were still hooked on the nicotine.
john
> Lucky you (and most Danes) who can work with little clothing. I just get
cold if I try it before it is at least 25C!
> But I remember many lunches outdoors even in February and often in March
due to a fluke in the weather bringing a few hours of spring! Those were the
days when 15C was spring.
> I gave up smoking some 8 or 9 months ago and it as made all the
> difference in feeling warm. In the last week I have worked through gales
and
> driving rain in a short sleeved T shirt and I never felt cold. I am very
> sure that it would have felt harsh if I were still hooked on the
nicotine.
> john
> John, that may have something to do with it, but I also eat very very
little.
And there I was feeling smug and a good boy for giving up an addiction. I
thought the feeling warm was a reward. I tried this idea out on the rest of
my family and got derisive hoots. It seems that they are all convinced that
I put on weight and that it is the extra insulation that is doing the job.
> Another problem I have right now is that my stove is so efficient in the
autumn! If I don't watch out it will suddenly be 26C! Now, 24C is a good
temperature for me (again, because of my neck) but I wear a padded skisuit
indoors, and am drenched with sweat all day and all night.
if this temperature in itself would not be the end of me I would surely be
lynched by my offspring if I tried to make it that hot here.
I too suffer(ed) from arthritis at times. I am very pleased with a red
copper bracelet at the moment. It seems to work even better than the magnets
I tried before.
It colors my wrist a fashionable shade of green but anything before heat.
John
John, that may have something to do with it, but I also eat very very little. And feeling cold on my neck and upper back immediately sends my entire body into shock (muscles tighten up, for instance!). It's this arthritis which now, thanks to acupuncture, bothers me only this way.
Another problem I have right now is that my stove is so efficient in the autumn! If I don't watch out it will suddenly be 26C! Now, 24C is a good temperature for me (again, because of my neck) but I wear a padded skisuit indoors, and am drenched with sweat all day and all night.
Since the full moon is coming up, it will most likely be all night, but I am prepared: reading a "crimi" by the Englishman John Harvey and listening to my nero music, now Duke Ellington! This is the best autumn ever in my life!
Carol
Dear John
....del...
Kathryn and "The Irish J's" will prolly tell you that this is Irish Copper.
Green is always fashionable.:-)
Kevinb Chisholm
John, Try bee stings if you are not alergic to them. If you get
squeamish then get some bee products. I had Arthur Rhitis in a
hip joint that made stairs a real pain. I got a jar of just plain honey
and put a table spoon in my coffee. I don't know if it really was the
honey but the pain is gone and I have a sweeter disposition:>)
Jim allAn
New York U.S.A. 200+ miles NW. of New York city
Click or copy/paste to see my garden.
Jim allAn
New York U.S.A. 200+ miles NW. of New York city
Click or copy/paste to see my garden.
Jim wrote :
I am a bee keeper (together with a few other things) and get on reasonably
well with my bees. Even so I collect the odd sting from time to time. The
reaction depends a lot on where I get stung. Hands, harms and legs are no
great problem but I have a few sensitive spots around my eyes and in my neck
that do cause spectacular swelling at times.
Some years ago I had transported a well filled box without a bottom in my
van over thirty miles of west Cork roads. The bees were not amused with the
amount of pot-holes we came to meet. At home I had to carry the box over
rough ground. By this stage the bees were so furious that they discovered
the gaps in my defenses with great haste. I lost count after the first 50-60
stings but I got a lot more. Anyway I finished the job in hand before I ran.
It seemed to work like a sleeping potion. I slept soundly for some 30 hours.
After that it took only about three more days before I could see enough
through my swollen eyelids to take step without having to feel my way.
I only received another two stings after that I think. No reaction. But we
handle with care from now on.
John
You bee-keepers that get stung, do you not wear the usual protective clothing? In Denmark bee-keepers wear heavy jackets and pants, rubber boots, heavy gloves that go almost to the elbows and loads and loads of gauze tied on a broad hat that again is tied around the neck and extends about to the hips. I have also seen big goggles under the gauze.
At least that is what it looks like to me - I haven't done more than look curiously.
Carol
> By this stage the bees were so furious that they discovered
> the gaps in my defenses with great haste. I lost count after the first
50-60
> stings but I got a lot more. Anyway I finished the job in hand before I
ran.
> It seemed to work like a sleeping potion. I slept soundly for some 30
hours.
> After that it took only about three more days before I could see enough
> through my swollen eyelids to take step without having to feel my way.
> I only received another two stings after that I think. No reaction. But
we
> handle with care from now on.
> John
> You bee-keepers that get stung, do you not wear the usual protective
clothing? In Denmark bee-keepers wear heavy jackets and pants, rubber boots,
heavy gloves that go almost to the elbows and loads and loads of gauze tied
on a broad hat that again is tied around the neck and extends about to the
hips. I have also seen big goggles under the gauze.
> At least that is what it looks like to me - I haven't done more than look
curiously.
> Carol
I have the proper protective clothing Carol and I usually use this. There
are moments though that it is more important to be macho especially if one
believes one understands one's animals.
It did go quite well until the last 5 minutes or so.
John
