Just for the record, worm growers in Florida have had a great deal of bad
experience with flatworms, losing entire populations of redworms to them.
Here's a bit from an interview with Larry Martin, www.vermitechnology.com,
published in Casting Call, Vol 2 Issue 4, December 1997:
"You're going to have minor problems no matter where you're operating. But
nothing major like the land planarian, commonly called the flatworm, which
was the most devastating experience I've ever had. And I've experienced this
for a period of 3 out of 5 years. The Cubans have had the same problem and
you'll have this in any tropical or sub-tropical area. That worm has wiped
out over 3,000 pounds [of earthworms] in 7 days, that's how fast they
reproduce. When all the worms are gone they start turning cannabilistic and
start consuming each other. I have no idea, and neither does the University,
where they go from there. Very, very few people ever rebound from being
wiped out. I've been contacted by 8 people this year who were wiped out in
Florida, from northern Florida all the way down to the Keys.......But the
growers who contacted me wanted to know why they weren't getting any
reproduction. Well it wasn't the reproduction--they had it---it's just these
worms came in and consumed all the small worms which were feeding on the
surface. The flatworms only go a couple of inches below the surface. So the
larger worms, being down further in the bed, survived until they came up to
feed. And then they were wiped out too." [Casting Call is available from
www.vermico.com ]
So get on the horn to your helminth people, Janet.....there be flatworms in
Florida!
Frank Teuton---puts this sort of horror story in the "reasons why
globalization ain't necessarily the cat's meow" folder.....so far no
flatworms in Montreal, mebbe they don't speak French, eh? :-)
Just reading along to entertain myself and educate myself about something
I don't know anything much at all about.
The discussion in this thread as well as the urls has focued on the
flatworms eating the earthworms.
So, living in north america, I am also wondering: Are these flatworms
eating (in the few places they've show up) our native worms and not just
the import the "red earthworm?"
It sounds bad but it also sounds confusing/complex. Once we've opened up
Pandora's box of quick trans-global human-aided introductions of species
(not just birds, wind, and water...) it ain't easy to close nor to see
what makes sense anymore.
The honeybee throat mite really upset some people and intrigued others
with the idea that native pollinators might get a new chance at a
foothold.
I am not at all saying that I think it would be fine if the import
earthworms went away. I think it would suck, I am just trying to wrap my
head around some more facts and facets.
eliza
Well, Eliza, some experts say our "native" earthworms mostly disappeared a
long time ago. What we have here are imported earthworms, coast to coast,
border to border. If you never saw those wagon trains of earthworms heading
west, you're not alone. I didn't see it either. Margaret L
Hi Margaret,
I can't say for the US, but that is certainly true for most if not all of
Canada. The last ice age covered most of Canada and consequently we have
no indigenous earthworms, they are all imports (and we are so glad to have
them!!).
Cheers, Bob
--
Bob Carter
Kootenay Bay, BC Canada
Zone 6b
Margaret L
Very interesting, thanks Bob and Margaret...However, the general question
I was posing still remains, if altered: Certainly before the arrival of
the earthworms from europe, we must have had some native creatures who
played "earthworm" roles (don't some centipedes play a kinda earthwormy
role in some places? and even to some degree I assume in my yard...)
If so, what could happen/would happen if the earthworms went away (back to
the honey bee analogy...)
Again I am not suggesting I think it would be good if earthworms went
away. Quite the contrary. Just posing questions...
And, though I don't like the rate at which species are being introduced
all over the place I do find it interesting that we so open-heartedly
embrace some "foreigners" while rejecting others...I am very unfond of say
"scotch broom" but I don't mind "deptford pinks"...Granted one of those
seems much more unwieldly and invasive than the other...still, sometimes I
wonder if our ire is *sometimes* guided a bit more by our anthropomorphic
interests/desires than by sheer objective analysis of eco-impact. (To be
sure we like to think we have a better handle on our interests than on
eco-impacts...and I concede that eco-impact is very hard to
determine...and yet, when I look at the way we act I often think we also
have no clue about our interests...)
:-)
eliza
Thanks for even more interestin tidbits Frank and Bob.
I think I should just keep throwing erroneous statements into the soup so
that I can get corrected :-) The corrections are ever so informative
eliza who notes that two winters ago she set herself the task to learn
more about the creepers and the crawlers and as you can see she didn't
meet that goal...
Hi Eliza,
I saw a nature show some time back ... so far back that I don't recall
silly details like it's name, etc, ... but what did stick with me was the
information that ants are among the most important agents in the nutrient
(re)cycle. The show stated that there are many places in the world without
earthworm populations and that ants were the key contributors in the
decomposition cycle. They are so important, they went on to state, that if
ants were to suddenly disappear from the scene it would lead to major
ecosystem collapse in these wormless areas, their role in breaking down
organic matter is so vital. I don't know that ants are a total analog to
earthworms in regard to such aspects as earth turning and OM integration
below the surface, but I wouldn't be surprised that they do perform these
functions to some degree at least.
Of course all the other decomposers and earth workers are important too,
the more the merrier I say! (Don't want to rile any `pedes or `wigs!)
;o)
Cheers, Bob
--
Bob Carter
Kootenay Bay, BC Canada
Zone 6b
Actually, it is millipedes who are the herbivorous macro-decomposers,
indigenous to North America, as I understand it.
Centipedes are predators, higher up on the food chain, and very fast
compared to millipedes, the slower, armored herbivores, of the forest floor,
there before the annelid invasion....
Now predation is part of the whole picture, eh? So like if we can dance with
wolves, thinking mammalians, then, we should at least be willing to waltz a
centipede around the forest dance floor, too, as I see it.
By the way, lots of rove beetles, and ground beetles, out in yonder compost
piles with all the worms, could be my insurance policy against kiwi/aussie
flatworms or stuff.
Unlike them insecticide users, who are just begging to be invaded by alien
life forms.
Really, nature does not like a vacuum, and she sends whatever she has right
in there.
So keep a diversity of critters, and you will likely be OK, I say, and hope
and pray....
Frank---millipedes and centipedes, he has 'em.....
> Thanks for even more interestin tidbits Frank and Bob.
> I think I should just keep throwing erroneous statements into the soup so
> that I can get corrected :-) The corrections are ever so informative
And ever-so interesting to us all.
My mind has been noisily churning along, trying to think of any other
crawly things I've seen wiggling about under the surface like earthworms -
the only thing that springs to mind quickly is *wireworms*! Ick - maybe
I'll have to start liking them...
I've also seen slugs under the surface of the soil, but I'm never EVER
going to like ~them~! Hmmmm - what about sowbugs? They eat decomposing
stuff too, but they're always at the surface, right? I'm just going to
have to pay more attention, I suppose. :-)
Diane Ridout, Instructor, ACP.............................................
Kwantlen University College, "Talk
12666-72 Avenue doesn't
Surrey, BC, Canada V3W 2M8 cook rice," they say.
Tel: (604) 599-2964 Voice mail 9837.......................................
Hi Dianne,
Have you heard about the carnivorous snails that pass by the greens to get
at and eat other snail and slug eggs?
Cheers, Bob
--
Bob Carter
Kootenay Bay, BC Canada
Zone 6b
> Hi Dianne,
> Have you heard about the carnivorous snails that pass by the greens to get
> at and eat other snail and slug eggs?
I have now. :-) If you could give me a description, I would seek them out
and embrace them all warmly (and release them right on top of their next
meal!)
Diane Ridout, Instructor, ACP.............................................
Kwantlen University College, "Talk
12666-72 Avenue doesn't
Surrey, BC, Canada V3W 2M8 cook rice," they say.
Tel: (604) 599-2964 Voice mail 9837.......................................
> Have you heard about the carnivorous snails that pass by the greens to get
> at and eat other snail and slug eggs?
They are called decollate snails,,,, dont think they fare well in
wintry climes.
