> ps I don't know what it means when you talk about soapboxes in the
> end of a
> letter???
I'll take a stab at this, but someone else probably can give you a better
answer.
In the past (probably late 1700's through 1800's) people could stand on
the sidewalk or in the public square and say whatever they wanted (free
speech). If you were upset with the government, if you were speaking out
against an injustice, or anything, even plain old oratory, you could
speak out publicly. Now in order for you to stand out above the crowd
you had to stand on something to be higher. Soap (and most everything
else) used to come in wooden boxes. So you could get one of these wooden
boxes from the grocer and use it as your informal, impromptu speaker's
stand. It was easy to get and easy to carry around with you and free.
They would use other boxes besides soap, but maybe soap was the first one
or something because the name stuck. And over the years, soapbox came to
denote an oratory or a speech about something and also carries with it
the connotation of getting on your high horse about something a little
bit, sort of a little bit preachy, if you know what I mean. I'll bet I
just confused you more than ever, huh?
Karen
___________________________________________________________________
> So yes, I think we should set a good example, but no, I don't think the
> *majority* of the responsibility lies on us (us being industrialized
> nations), I think the responsibility lies with each nation of the world.
I think I understood most of what you write - and of course i agree that
each nation has responsisbility. When I say "western" life I think here is
where this way of living started , this time, it is a cultural way of life,
a name for it, and now you find this culture a lot of places in the world.
Like every overcomsupting culture in the world thousand of before today -
I think this also will die too - the world can take that way of living for
a long time.
Arnhild
ps I don't know what it means when you talk about soapboxes in the end of a
letter???
Just thought I'd add that this tradition continues each Sunday in Hyde =
Park in England, which I got a great kick out of.
Penny
> DAVID & KAREN BARKER
> ps I don't know what it means when you talk about soapboxes in the
> end of a
> letter???
I'll take a stab at this, but someone else probably can give you a better
answer.
In the past (probably late 1700's through 1800's) people could stand on
the sidewalk or in the public square and say whatever they wanted (free
speech). If you were upset with the government, if you were speaking out
against an injustice, or anything, even plain old oratory, you could
speak out publicly. Now in order for you to stand out above the crowd
you had to stand on something to be higher. Soap (and most everything
else) used to come in wooden boxes. So you could get one of these wooden
boxes from the grocer and use it as your informal, impromptu speaker's
stand. It was easy to get and easy to carry around with you and free.
They would use other boxes besides soap, but maybe soap was the first one
or something because the name stuck. And over the years, soapbox came to
denote an oratory or a speech about something and also carries with it
the connotation of getting on your high horse about something a little
bit, sort of a little bit preachy, if you know what I mean. I'll bet I
just confused you more than ever, huh?
Karen
___________________________________________________________________
Penny, I saw that on TV a month or so ago. Some of them bring step
ladders now. There are people who keep doing it every week and one was a
woman.
Karen
On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:20:45 -0300 Penny Nielsen
writes:
___________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 9/29/99 10:51:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
d-k-barker@JUNO.COM writes:
> just by law of reason.
LOL you believe that there is such a law?
:::wondering what this whole thread has to do with Gardening in general:::
Bruce (c:
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Me too, just adding OT to subject line since it is broader
than mere gardening.
--
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Now at the Cottage Garden "Revenge of the Purple Cabbage
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When a discussion veers from gardening...as a courtesy
to Gardens subscribers who just want to read about gardening
related topics...please 'OT' in the subject line to show that
a thread is ON TOPIC for Gardens, but not quite gardening.
> :::wondering what this whole thread has to do with Gardening in general:::
> Bruce (c:
Hi all gardeners
Sometimes I've been thinking the same as Bruce - even when it started long
back in something I asked, but then it was called something else - think it
was in fruitgrowing in hurricane area.
But after then I have thought: "This is a very friendly list where we are
allowed to discuss also this thing, without many angry mails? - and - the
world is the biggest garden we have isn't it - and we all have ecological
responsibility for this collective garden of ours - don't we?"
Gardening and ecological responsibility walk hand in hand in this world.
Your garden is the little piece of mother nature you are the manager of.
So maybe we all forgot the OT - sorry - but I feel it has been interesting
for me this thread. And I hope listowner didn't get angry mails because of
it?
.... and speaking about ecology ... you all know what have happened in Japan
today? Atomic accident (or what it is called in english?) There will be no
gardening in that neighbourhood in the first time! That must be even worser
than any hurricane or avalanches.
Arnhild
--- Gardens Banner and Tip ---
When a discussion veers from gardening...as a courtesy
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related topics...please 'OT' in the subject line to show that
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On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:08:40 -0400 DAVID & KAREN BARKER
And who ever said government operated by the laws of reason or any kind
of common sense? Recycling is typical. We clean and sort it, then they
toss it all back together and bury it. They take our money in taxes, give
a lot of it to bureaucrats to have nice trips, many employees and fancy
offices, and then they give a little of it back in services and expect us
to be grateful. Sure!
But I still recycle. Well-trained little automaton.
Anne
___________________________________________________________________
<< Couldn't it possibly be because carindustry is so important in Japan that
the government "lay flat" for it - without this industry the whole country
will be "shaking"???
> The Japanese
> have an increasing property tax for many items. The older it gets
> the more
> you pay in tax to own it. >>
Exactly. They have chosen to promote their industry above conservation.
These laws are decades old and no doubt seemed much more reasonable back when
we all lived in relative ignorance about recycling and such.
OTOH, there are many Japanese communities that have taken recycling to
amazing new heights. One community has such a great recycling industry that
the entire village's trash can fit in one truck a week and they take
surrounding communities recyclable goods in addition to their own.
Julianne, zone 7
On Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:51:17 EDT - Julianne Stovall
writes:
Now that's something great to hear. I wish the U.S. could develop more
ways to use recycled material. We did buy a picnic table frame made from
recycled plastic and I would buy more things made from recycled material
when I need them. I was thinking that if we ever build another deck I
would use those decking boards (like Trex) made from recycled plastic.
What I wish they'd develop is a way to use more rubber tires. PA has
huge quantities of them and every so often one dump will catch fire--talk
about pollution! We have to pay a tire tax per tire to get rid of old
ones and they just stockpile them.
Karen
___________________________________________________________________
Actually, I think most of the time it does get recycled at least in PA.
One time the press found out they buried some in a landfill and there was
a big hullabaloo about it--front page news. I think they corrected the
problem.
Karen
___________________________________________________________________
They call my state Taxachussets (Massachusets). We already had an annual
inspection for fuel emmisions that everyone who owns a car in MA must pass, and
they just raised the standards. Also the price that we pay for the privilege to
be ecologially correct is now $29. I guess its a good thing.
Esther
Arnhild Bleie
Please respond to Gardens & Gardening
To: GARDENS@LSV.UKY.EDU
cc: (bcc: Esther Czekalski/US/BULL)
Subject: Re: OT Overconsumption/Ecological responsibility
Hi - I think there are some difference between my Norway and some other
countris?
We use to say in this little contry with taxes and more that without it we
wouldn't been so equal and taken so care of when we needed it; in
kindergarden, in schools, in hospital, in old peoples house and so on
....new roads, securitywalls against avalanches ... :)
If we want a society (or a state?) that takes care of us we must be willing
to share what we earn before we can say that the state shall have the
responcibilty for all these good things that makes it good and saffe for
mos of us? We are used to this you know Norway had high taxes - but it is a
good contry to live in.
But of course there will alway be ufair situatoin here over too.
Arnhild
Hi - I think there are some difference between my Norway and some other
countris?
We use to say in this little contry with taxes and more that without it we
wouldn't been so equal and taken so care of when we needed it; in
kindergarden, in schools, in hospital, in old peoples house and so on
....new roads, securitywalls against avalanches ... :)
If we want a society (or a state?) that takes care of us we must be willing
to share what we earn before we can say that the state shall have the
responcibilty for all these good things that makes it good and saffe for
mos of us? We are used to this you know Norway had high taxes - but it is a
good contry to live in.
But of course there will alway be ufair situatoin here over too.
Arnhild
Esther, I pay $30 for the yearly emissions test and then we have an
annual inspection besides that for mechanical stuff, tire & break wear,
etc., and that's another $16.95 to $26, depending who you have do it. We
don't have a value tax on the car, but in our county we have 7 percent
sales tax at time of purchase.
That was a good one about Jamie.
Karen
On Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:53:38 -0400 Esther Czekalski
___________________________________________________________________
<< I wish the U.S. could develop more
ways to use recycled material. We did buy a picnic table frame made from
recycled plastic and I would buy more things made from recycled material
when I need them. I was thinking that if we ever build another deck I
would use those decking boards (like Trex) made from recycled plastic.
What I wish they'd develop is a way to use more rubber tires. >>
There are many, many garden products now being made of recycled plastic. I
got some great borders from the Alsto's catalog. I have also seen 'boards'
for raised beds that look nice too. There were other recycled items too that
my feeble mind has forgotten.
Tires are very successfully recycled into the asphalt. Unfortunately not
many localities have taken this up. It would really use up those used tires
quickly.
Julianne, zone 7
Some minds should be cultivated, others just plowed under
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Hi
Don't have mandatory emission test - yet - but they (?) will set up a test =
site, say at a shopping centre, and you can get your car tested. We do =
have mandatory annual vehicle inspections but I think they only cost $10 =
or $15.
All new and used cars have a 15% sales tax. The used bit really ticks us =
off.
Penny in Halifax, N.S. - another highly taxed country
> DAVID & KAREN BARKER
Esther, I pay $30 for the yearly emissions test and then we have an
annual inspection besides that for mechanical stuff, tire & break wear,
etc., and that's another $16.95 to $26, depending who you have do it. We
don't have a value tax on the car, but in our county we have 7 percent
sales tax at time of purchase.
That was a good one about Jamie.
Karen
On Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:53:38 -0400 Esther Czekalski
___________________________________________________________________
There was a moratorium on recycling tires into roadbed materials after a couple
of highways in Washington state started smoldering.
Recycled tire asphalt is a different product...but it probably has to overcome
the 'burning-tire' mindset, too, as well as 'inertia toward a new product' and
'costs more initially' mindsets.
Barb in Southern Indiana Zone 5/6 dorsett@blueriver.net
A root is a flower that disdains fame.
Problem with this in Pennsylvania, too. According to my Dad (I did not see the
article, so this is 3rd-4th hand info) after a really bad car accident in the
Philadelphia area (where he lives) the roadbed caught fire and burned so hot that
it buckled the roadbed and an overpass, which had to be completely reconstructed.
I'm sure there ARE ways to do it, but we are not doing them yet!
Joan
