This came to me from a garden news letter. FYI any who have cat problems:
they don't like dog hair, anise oil or rue.
Bonnie C.
Mt. zone 5 Ut. USA
I used to have a bed about 2 ft wide, running along the S of the house.
Dry soil so cats loved it. Used chicken wire on top of the bed,
cutting some of the wire now and then and twisting the strand 90
degrees. Takes a while to do but very prickly, Cats stayed away. I
sprinkled some earth/compost on top of wire so it wasn't so obvious to
the eye.
This weekend I planted 3 day lilies, 3 large dahlias and about 60 lilium
( pots and all) in my new veggie(?) garden, underplanted with bulbs
bulbs and more bulbs.
Not very much planting really but a triumph. Have spent the last month
filling a dumpster with rubbish, cutting any wood suitable for burning,
then digging garden - bindweed paradise-, adding untold wheelbarrows
of kelp and FINALLY planting something.:
Ginny in Victoria who is so glad she 's found a non-gardening neighbour
with a very sunny garden for me to dig and play.
PS. Someone wanted to know what groundhog tasted like. Honestly -
can't remember. First time I casseroled it, second time encased it with
clay and baked in a pit (after having done some research). Second time
-fed the dogs. Family uproar resulted from the second one.
I have this exact problem. Over the years, on this list, people have
suggested:
- orange rinds
- moth balls
- cayenne pepper
- dog hair
Personally, I don't think any of these would work, though admittedly, i haven't
tried them. I contemplated setting up mouse traps in certain spots just under
the soil, but as a co-worker said, the cats would just avoid those spots. This
same co-worker suggested using, I think this is the right name, TKO, which is a
citrus smelling oil sold with cleaning supplies and vet supplies. Personally,
I don't think that would work either. And the problem with all of the above,
is that you'd have to reapply after rain.
I have a dog and that hasn't kept the cat away - merely kept the cat out of the
yard when we weren't home. Unless you leave your dog out 24 hours a day, it
won't help keep a cat away. These cats are a big problem because usually what
happens is that their owners leave the cats out all night to roam (I HATE
that!!! - keep your cats in). My neighbour admitted this to me, but as yet, I
haven't wanted to rock the boat with her, by talking to her about her cats.
My experience in the past has been that once the plants get big enough, the
cats stop coming around - they like the open, unplanted gardens the best (with
loose soil). What I did was to place plastic snow fencing over the seed bed.
It has worked. The seeds can still come up, but the cats won't walk on the
fencing. In fact it worked so well, that I plan on buying more to cover the
whole garden area next year. Broken egg shells may work, but you'd need an
awful lot of them!
I like cats, but I HATE gardening in my flower borders if they're filled with
cat shit. And I don't appreciate the stuff in my veggies either. Right now
my line of defense is to scare the cat away whenever I see it, and the snow
fencing, which seems to be doing the job in the veggie garden.
Brenda in Lethbridge
Paul Ostrof wrote:
Well, after all, if us dog-owners have to have our animals on leashes, and we have to
pick up their crap, why shouldn't cat owners?
Brenda
George Shirley wrote:
I have considered traps. A while back, there was a stray cat in my
yard. It
wasn't doing any damage, that I could see, but I was actually quite
concerned
about it, since it was winter, down to -40 and I didn't think a
responsible
owner would be allowing the cat out in conditions like that. I looked
into
traps in our city and this is what their terms are:
- you pick up the trap, pay something like $20 deposit
- you agree not to leave the trap unattended for more than an hour (you
have to
be home when you set it) i.e. the animal is not allowed to be in there
for more
than an hour because of our heat in the summer and cold in the winter
- you call them immediately when you catch anything
- they come to pick up
- you go in to get your deposit back
I decided against the traps because the times when you usually need to
set them
up is through the night, and there was no way I was waking up every hour
to
check a blasted trap. I would have left the trap out all night, and
then felt
bad if anything happened to the animal inside.
Brenda in Lethbridge
Annette Green wrote:
It takes a lot of work bonding with your dog and getting them to trust
you. It also takes the risk of allowing them gradual freedom until you
can trust THEM. Dogs that remain fenced in or tied up, never have the
opportunity to learn to be street wise. Mom is working with her dog
right now on this exact matter. Mom is in her 70's and can no longer
chase a dog down the street. Mom has also always had dogs that have
obeyed the property line without training. Mom has just gotten a
Pekingese/Jack Russell Terrier cross and had her life become complete
chaos!
However, it is working, and she's making progress. Mom has 1/2 acre
which is impossible to completely fence in, and she lives on a very busy
street. She started out by taking the dog out every time, on a leash.
Then she gradually went to a long chain, and would chain the dog to
something while she was working in the yard. She has just graduated to
a certain amount of freedom - Mom now still takes her out on the chain,
but doesn't attach it to anything. She figured if the dog ran, she'd at
least have half a chance of grabbing the end of the chain.
Miraculously, the dog has stayed close, probably thinking that she IS
attached to something. If I were handling this, my next step would be
to
switch from a chain to something lighter - a piece of rope or something
like that. Then eventually nothing. There will come the time you have
to trust your dog not to run, and there will be times the dog will
backslide and will run, but you have to go through it.
My own dog stopped running the instant I took her on walks outside the
yard. It was as though she trusts that I will take her out into the
world to see it once in awhile, and is content to stay close to me the
rest of the time. My dog will still startle, or chase things, so I
still keep a close eye on her, but for the most part, she's right by my
side. When she was a pup, she ran every chance she got.
Another important training aide is to teach your dog to "heel" and
"come". "Come" is important for the obvious reasons, but "heel" is the
command that may save your dog's life. Both these start with leash
training, and eventually, you should be able to do them without leashes.
Brenda in Lethbridge
"Dent, Margaret" wrote:
LrdRas@AOL.COM wrote:
> I can think of 2 very good reasons...4 actually.
> 1. Cats are not trained to lease easily and their head structure makes slipping
their >collar much easier than a dog.
Small dogs have this problem too - that's why they came up with harnesses.
That's what I would use for a cat - more comfortable for the animal anyway.
> 2. Cats dig a hole and bury their waste products Dogs do not.
Not all cats do. The cat that leaves his shit in my yard doesn't. Actually,
that's almost preferrable to diving your hand in the soil only to find the
droppings manually rather than visually. And trust me.....MY dog is not easy to
pick up after. If I can do it....so can a cat owner. And besides, we didn't
really expect you to go searching the neighbourhood for your cat's poop to pick
up....we're asking that you train your cat to go in it's own yard. It can be
done. I know people who have done so, in fact, I know a person who's cat asks to
come back inside so it can use the litter box. If you get ticked off at the dog
owner who leaves his dog's poop in your yard, how can you expect us to like you
leaving your cat's poop in our yard? Really. And if you insist on allowing it
to do so, then don't be surprised at the steps we might take to stop it from
doing so. What do you think of doing when a dog poops in your yard and the
owner doesn't pick up - hmmm - maybe collect a bag of it and dump it on their
doorstep? Maybe catching the animal and taking it to it's owner to complain?
No, I would never hurt an animal, but I wouldn't think twice about scaring it out
of my yard - perhaps with the garden hose.
> 3. Dogs attack people while cats rarely if ever do so.
Oddly enough, most people that I know that have been attacked by a dog or a cat
have been attacked by the latter - without provocation. Dogs USUALLY need to be
provoked to attack.
> 4. The laws set in place in the middle ages regarding the confinement and
control of >feral cats resulted in furthering the spread of rodent carried
bubonic plague.
Ah, but the domestic cat being allowed out at night to roam is not the same thing
as a feral cat. Domestic cats would not make a dent in the population of
hantavirus carrying rodents. Southern Alberta's main species of rodent is the
deer mouse and recent tests have shown that 45% of the population of deer mice
carry the hantavirus. The place is literally crawling with cats.......and mice.
> Since the rodent carried hannavirus is now spreading on the east coast as well
as in >the West, such laws would, in affect, allow an increase in the rodent
population and >facilitate the spread of this deadly disease.
The rodent vectors vary throughout the world. In parts of the US, there are
different species of rats that carry the hantavirus. In other parts it's the
deermouse. The most well known carrier is the deermouse, but if you lived in an
area where the main carrier was a rat, Fluffy is not going to make much of an
impact on the hantavirus-carrying rodent population. In that case, I'd probably
lean towards getting a pet python. And in that case, I'd have to agree it'd be
pretty tough to leash them! ;)
> So such laws are clearly not in the best interest of the health and welfare of
society >at this time.
Except for all the diseases that cats carry and pass on. If I were a pregnant
woman with not much exposure to cats, the fact that your cat comes and poops in
my garden may put my baby at risk. Well, okay, I'm not a pregnant woman, but
your cat has just had a cat fight under my bedroom window, in my flower border.
I start weeding my flower border and all of a sudden I can't breath. I have
asthma and cat hair is one of my triggers.
As well, the vast majority of damage to my property has been as the result of
cats. I've had cats scratch the heck out of some of my young trees, I've had
them tear my garbage to shreds so continuously that I had to switch to metal
garbage cans. No it wasn't dogs, it was shredded, not clawed open. I've had
many of the flowers in my border die because the cats have dumped there. I've
had flowers dug up by cats using the borders as litter boxes. I've had dead
birds left around to rot, usually 3-4 per summer. In fact, I'd hestitate to guess
that the domestic cats actually make more of a dent in the bird population than
the rodent population, but that would be a REAL guess. Just because I've seen
more evidence of dead birds than dead mice.
> Lest the 'rabies' argument rear it's head, those infected with the hannavirus
must be >ventilated within 24 hours of the onset of symptoms. The rare rabies
victim has 10 >days to begin treatments.
I wouldn't even begin to blame cats for rabies. So many animals are carrier's of
rabies that I wouldn't deem to single out cats. Dogs too, after all, carry
rabies. So do racoons among others. Reptiles carry salmonella. Here in cattle
country, we also have to worry about E. coli and Anthrax, among others. Nope,
wouldn't have even thought of rabies. I know about that since all animal heads
tested for rabies in Western Canada, actually get sent here to Lethbridge, to the
Animal Disease Research Institute. They also do all the Anthrax testing (which
they've had a rash of lately) and would be involved should any E. coli outbreak
occur here. And trust me, I know about hantavirus too. I had a friend die of
hantavirus two years ago. Sometimes they don't even have 24 hours if the truth
be known. But you'll never convince me that the domesticated cat would ever make
enough of a dent in the rodent population to make a difference in the hantavirus
problem.
> Just a thought......
Hey, I appreciate it! Really! As I said before, I like cats (I know it doesn't
seem that way, and I'd be the first to admit that I'm more of a dog person than a
cat person, but I do like them), I just feel that cat owners, in general (yes, I
know there are responsible cat owners out there, just as there are responsible
dog owners), tend to take a lazy attitude when it comes to the damage that their
cats do in the neighbourhood. They seem to be able to put up with the damage in
their own yards, but don't think about the neighbours.
Brenda in Lethbridge
- who is torn, because she has a VERY nice neighbour with three cats who do most
of the damage
Apparently John, your experiences are the total opposite of mine. Granted,
when a dog attacks, it can do more damage, but cats attack more often IMHO.
And even a small scratch becomes septic in my experience. We have already
agreed that there are both irresponsible dog AND cat owners. Show me a dog who
runs out into the street unprovoked to attack someone, and I'll show you an
irresponsible dog owner. In my experience, almost 100% of the property damage
done to my house and yard has been from cats - and I even live in a high deer
area. Dogs have done no damage. I have not been attacked by dogs, but I have
been attacked by cats. Look in any animal shelter and you'll see that the
world has a much, much, much larger cat problem, than a dog problem. It's a
case of numbers.
And for the record, the cats in my neighbourhood kill the birds and don't eat
them. And the cats at the barn at work kill the mice and don't eat them. They
play with them and kill them just for the hell of it too.
Brenda in Lethbridge
John Harman wrote:
John Harman wrote:
> Do more damage !! What like killing people !!
As mentioned in my post - yes, they can kill fetuses. And, as mentioned in my
post I agreed that when a dog attacks they do more damage, but more people are
clawed or scratched or attacked by cats, it's just not reported as much, and
doesn't make headlines (obviously). A dog that attacks is the sign of a bad
owner, a cat that attacks is often just having fun with you.
> Cat attacks !! You have to be joking.
Yes John, cat attacks. No joke. No joke at all. Had one walk along the back of
a sofa behind me and suddenly launch himself at my face, scratching me badly.
Never had a dog do that.
> Talk about sick society.
You're right. And those sick people include both dog and cat owners. There is a
house near here that had to be torn down and set fire to because the owner had
let the cats take over the house. There were feces all over the walls and
ceilings. The basement, dirt floor, was used as a litter box. Cat urine all
over the place. That's not sick?
> I suggest that a lot of people have a neurotic attitude towards dogs.
Including you, obviously. Wow, you have the strongest reaction against dogs of
anyone I've ever known. All we asked for was for people to control their cats so
they don't poop in our yards, and you come out swinging against all dogs because
of a few unfortunate cases of bad dog ownership. You never hear of the good
owners do you? There are a lot of us around, you know.
> I'd rather fight off a cat than a Rottweiller anyday. :)
Given the choice of a strange cat or a strange dog, I'd approach the dog anyday,
they're much more predictable.
Brenda in Lethbridge
Actually, Lee Ann is right. Turns out that most people aren't allergic to the
dander of cats, but the dried saliva on the hairs.
Brenda in Lethbridge
- whose dog only bothers her when she needs a bath
PPPUser wrote:
Greetings!
Does anybody know of a plant, herb, or SOMETHING to keep the cats in our
neighborhood out of our garden. They are using it as a big litter box and
we want to find something to repel them but not harm them nor our plants.
Paul Ostrof
????????????????????????
????????????????????????????=A0=A0=
:::::::::::::??????:*??`????????`*:????=AB:::::::::::::
Pearl,
Some people on my gardening list say that citrus peels scattered around
will keep cats out of garden beds. I've found that in areas where space
and other things allow, chicken wire laid down on the ground keeps them
out--they don't like walking on it. That needs to be put down before
things grow up, though. Good luck. Let me know what works, if you will
;-)
Barbara and The CatPack (Dylan, Blue, Jet, and FuzzButt)
In this house, cat hair is a condiment.
http://www.banders.com
Paul Ostrof wrote:
> Greetings!
> Does anybody know of a plant, herb, or SOMETHING to keep the cats in=
our
> neighborhood out of our garden. They are using it as a big litter box a=
nd
> we want to find something to repel them but not harm them nor our plant=
s.
:::::::::::
Paul
Have used rose cuttings laid out around the plants works, but be careful =
when working in the garden.
Penny
> paulo@FRII.COM 05/25/00 10:06AM >>>
Greetings!
Does anybody know of a plant, herb, or SOMETHING to keep the cats in =
our
neighborhood out of our garden. They are using it as a big litter box and
we want to find something to repel them but not harm them nor our plants.
Paul Ostrof
:::::::::::::=BB????:* `?????? `*:=BB????::::::::::=
:::
How about a dog or a fence?
Karen in zone 6/5b
Pittsburgh, PA
"Spring inspires much wanderlust, a lot of gardening and a little bit of
bad poetry."
________________________________________________________________
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Paul,
The only thing I have found that works reliably is to lay a piece of fencing down on the dirt. I use the 4X4in wire fencing and plant in the holes. It makes it tough to rake, but I usually just mulch right over the top of it with no problem. I also keep a couple of pieces of the fencing around to lay across newly dug dirt (a cat favorite!). That way I can wait for the seeds to germinate and take off the fencing right before I mulch. BTW the stuff works best if not laying directly on the ground, but the cats cannot be able to crawl under it.
Our city added cats to the leash law last year and the outcry was tremendous.
Example: Cats are independent, you can't leash train them. The Humane Society
lady brought her cat in on a leash and it was okay. Don't see as many stray cats
as we used to around here as the animal control people can now legally pick them
up just like other pets. The new ordinance also says they must wear a collar
with their rabies tag on it. Neighbor across the street used to turn her cat out
at night. Now she keeps it indoors all the time and is leash training it. Makes
me happy as I did not like her cat coming over and crapping in my flower beds.
Sleepy would run it off when she was outside but Sleepy stops at the street and
the cat didn't.
Still hear some complaints from the cat people nearly every city council meeting
but they are getting less and less. I reckon paying a 50 buck fine to get your
cat out of jail is a bit steep. In addition, three times it gets picked up and
it's euthanized. Point being: cats can be leash trained and they're much safer
in the house than out. I think all this has been covered before though.
George, who likes cats less than dogs but still likes them if they are
well-behaved
Brenda Pink wrote:
Hear, hear.
George
Brenda Pink wrote:
We have the same laws here in our county, but try to get anyone to follow
it. The animal control people won't come out unless you agree to trap the
cats in the raccoon traps. Then the cats stays in the cage until they come
out and take it. Everyone knows who has the traps and who's cat was caught.
It has caused no end of hard feelings around here. I have had raccoons in
my house and tearing up my screen porch, but I can't put out traps. If I
get the neighbors cat it goes to the pound. I am not really a cat lover,
but my daughter is. We are letting her have a kitten for her birthday. It
will stay indoors by any possible means. Heck I have 4 kittens in my
laundry room as the neighbors cat decided to have them in our garage. When
the raccoons started coming around we moved them inside. Had to teach momma
to use the litter box.
too.
Anne in FL
zone 9b, sunset 26
Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Cat Repellent
> Our city added cats to the leash law last year and the outcry was
tremendous.
> Example: Cats are independent, you can't leash train them. The Humane
Society
> lady brought her cat in on a leash and it was okay. Don't see as many stray
cats
> as we used to around here as the animal control people can now legally pick
them
> up just like other pets. The new ordinance also says they must wear a
collar
Our little city just made national news, last week, when the mayor and
police
announced that, yes, cats *are* subject to the leash law, and yes, the ci=
ty
*will* enforce that law. Fine by me - I'm tired of the cat fights in fro=
nt
of my house
at 6 on Sunday mornings, and finding cat poop all in my flower beds. but
some folks are screaming.
Harry
who thinks cats, like children and Republicans, should be kept in their
place
tremendous.
> Example: Cats are independent, you can't leash train them. The Humane
Society
> lady brought her cat in on a leash and it was okay. Don't see as many
stray cats
> as we used to around here as the animal control people can now legally
pick them
> up just like other pets. The new ordinance also says they must wear a
collar
> with their rabies tag on it. Neighbor across the street used to turn he=
r
cat out
> at night. Now she keeps it indoors all the time and is leash training i=
t.
Makes
> me happy as I did not like her cat coming over and crapping in my flowe=
r
beds.
> Sleepy would run it off when she was outside but Sleepy stops at the
street and
> the cat didn't.
> Still hear some complaints from the cat people nearly every city counci=
l
meeting
> but they are getting less and less. I reckon paying a 50 buck fine to g=
et
your
> cat out of jail is a bit steep. In addition, three times it gets picked=
up
and
> it's euthanized. Point being: cats can be leash trained and they're muc=
h
safer
i
haven't
> tried them. I contemplated setting up mouse traps in certain spots j=
ust
under
> the soil, but as a co-worker said, the cats would just avoid those
spots. This
> same co-worker suggested using, I think this is the right name, TKO,
which is a
> citrus smelling oil sold with cleaning supplies and vet supplies.
Personally,
> I don't think that would work either. And the problem with all of th=
e
above,
> is that you'd have to reapply after rain.
> I have a dog and that hasn't kept the cat away - merely kept the cat =
out
of the
> yard when we weren't home. Unless you leave your dog out 24 hours a
day, it
> won't help keep a cat away. These cats are a big problem because
usually what
> happens is that their owners leave the cats out all night to roam (I
HATE
> that!!! - keep your cats in). My neighbour admitted this to me, but a=
s
yet, I
> haven't wanted to rock the boat with her, by talking to her about her
cats.
> My experience in the past has been that once the plants get big enoug=
h,
the
> cats stop coming around - they like the open, unplanted gardens the b=
est
(with
> loose soil). What I did was to place plastic snow fencing over the s=
eed
bed.
> It has worked. The seeds can still come up, but the cats won't walk =
on
the
> fencing. In fact it worked so well, that I plan on buying more to co=
ver
the
> whole garden area next year. Broken egg shells may work, but you'd n=
eed
an
> awful lot of them!
> I like cats, but I HATE gardening in my flower borders if they're fil=
led
with
> cat shit. And I don't appreciate the stuff in my veggies either.
Right now
> my line of defense is to scare the cat away whenever I see it, and th=
e
snow
s
in our
> neighborhood out of our garden. They are using it as a big litter b=
ox
and
> we want to find something to repel them but not harm them nor our
plants.
:::::::::::::
We got Sleepy when she was 4 months old. I started immediately training her to
go out front with me in the morning to get the paper and again in the afternoon
to get the mail (the paper and mail boxes are across the street from the house).
If she minded and stayed in the yard she got a treat, if not she got swatted at
with the paper. You shake a rolled up paper at her today and she will sit and
wait to see what you want.
Once in awhile she will essay a dash across the street to chase a squirrel or
cat. All I have to do is say "Ahnnt", hard to describe, like you're going to say
uh hunh but run together, and she puts on the brakes and goes back to her place.
Nowadays she is allowed to sniff the neighbor on either sides front yard and do
a little urine marking but she doesn't even try to cross the street anymore.
We work in the front gardens often and she generally goes out with us, sniffs
around, and then lays up in the shade watching us work. A combination of love,
treats, and simple punishment seems to work. Her worse punishment for doing
something wrong is for me to not allow her close to me. She will walk a few
steps behind me with her ears and tail hanging down and looking mournful until I
give up and scratch her and talk to her. That also seems to work as she appears
to love Miz Anne and I to distraction.
If we accidentally leave a gate open into the back yard she won't go through it
for anything. Won't go through one when we open it unless we tell her to come
on. She is the best behaved dog we've ever had and I think a large part of it
must just be in her nature. She's lying by my feet as I hack at this and is
trying to soft soap me into giving her a bite of my fake eggs by "kissing" my
foot every once in awhile. I think she will end up with some egg.
George and Sleepy, missing Miz Anne who is enjoying her mother and siblings in
Maryland
"Dent, Margaret" wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
> Sleepy would run it off when she was outside but Sleepy stops at the street and
> the cat didn't.
George,
How did you train your dog to stop at the street? Our Min. Schnauzer thinks it's all her property, especially when she sees something
tantalinzing across the street, like birds or squirrels. She's given me a near heart attack on many ocassions and I thank God our street is
a very quiet one...
Margaret.
--
Margaret Dent
"Speed of life increases proportionately to the distance traveled." MD
"Parenting is like solving a jigsaw puzzle with your eyes closed." MD
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Margaret Dent Technical Support Specialist
E-mail: dentm@mail.mohawkc.on.ca
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^George Shirley wrote:
I've had cats that go outside and cats that didn't. In my experience, if
they never have the experience of being outside, they don't miss it. Some
of the shyer ones can be re-trained. On the other hand, I have aslo met
cats that you can't keep inside. They can be sneaky and fast!
Esther
Brenda...what works depends on the attractions and distractions.
Short sticks of various lengths laid on mulch will work...they scratch up a
spot, hit themselves with a stick, and jump away. I've had cayenne pepper
work for short periods, until rain washed the powder away or the cat found
some other pathway through...or a spot I missed. Sometimes, that's
enough...the ground settles and they find other, more attractive places.
Chicken wire will also work...unless my garden is the only newly tilled
space in the area. I even had one cat climb into a coldframe because that
was deemed the 'best or only spot.' It rushed *through* the side of the
cold frame when I spooked it.
One attractant...fertilizers. If the bed smells of urine, they're more than
likely to decide to use it for their business. Using a low nitrogen
fertilizer in combination with simple barriers helps more than any other
technique I've tried.
Snow? *Any* exposed ground or mulch is fair game.
Birdfeeders or birdbaths? Cats will figure out a way in...and space to
hide. Chicken wire won't cover all possible space, even when anchored with
branches. Rose branches...they almost purr as they step gracefully around
obstacles. They were hiding under lirope, which I removed. They started
hiding under daylily foliage. Last month, I stuffed a whole dead Christmas
tree's prickly branches into every available piece of ground space. They
figured out an attack route, nudged enough branches out of the way,
willingly risked the occasional pine needle in paw and lurked..successfully,
as it turned out.
I gave up and put the birdbath out in the middle of a grassy spot.
Now...I'm thinking about *short* plants that appreciate plenty of water and
bird-dropped fertilizers. Hmmmm....
Barb in Southern Indiana Zone 5/6 dorsett@blueriver.net
A root is a flower that disdains fame.
Often in the gardens of people other then their owners!
I do not own a cat and don't wish to own a cat. But I constantly have cats
in my yard. Yesterday I came home to find my Pansies smashed and a pile of
waste buried not far away. As you say, dogs don't bury their waste. If my
dog was to go into a neighbors yard, smash plants and deposit waste in the
garden she could be hauled off to the pound. But not a cat. I pay yearly
fees to licence my dog. Cat owners don't. I could get fined if my dog runs
the neighborhood. Not cat owners.
Terry in Crest, CA who is not at all happy with cats right now :(
In a message dated 5/25/00 10:47:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pinkbm@HOME.COM
writes:
<< Well, after all, if us dog-owners have to have our animals on leashes, and
we have to
pick up their crap, why shouldn't cat owners?
Brenda >>
I can think of 2 very good reasons...4 actually.
1. Cats are not trained to lease easily and their head structure makes
slipping their collar much easier than a dog.
2. Cats dig a hole and bury their waste products Dogs do not.
3. Dogs attack people while cats rarely if ever do so.
4. The laws set in place in the middle ages regarding the confinement and
control of feral cats resulted in furthering the spread of rodent carried
bubonic plague. Since the rodent carried hannavirus is now spreading on the
east coast as well as in the West, such laws would, in affect, allow an
increase in the rodent population and facilitate the spread of this deadly
disease. So such laws are clearly not in the best interest of the health and
welfare of society at this time. Lest the 'rabies' argument rear it's head,
those infected with the hannavirus must be ventilated within 24 hours of the
onset of symptoms. The rare rabies victim has 10 days to begin treatments.
from.
Just a thought......
John
(zone 5-more or less)
<<1. Cats are not trained to lease easily and their head structure makes
slipping their collar much easier than a dog.>>
Try leash training a sight hound. Neighbors come from miles around to see
why you are beating a puppy ;-)
Also a lot of dogs have smaller heads than necks; sight hounds, Dals and
some small breeds.
IMHO cats should be on leash and licensed. Years ago people with dogs said
they wouldn't fence or leash their dogs because dogs were born "to be free".
The cat owners are now facing the same questions and dilemmas dog owners
faced then - and are using the same reasons. They are no more appropriate
for cats than they were for dogs - the world becomes more crowded and
neighbors closer!!
Carol Hunter
at 6200 feet in Vernon, AZ
Zone 6
Hi George, the worse I ever say was a Afghan Hound puppy. The puppy screamed
for 30 minutes with only a collar and leash on - no moving - just sat and
screamed. The owner would pick it up and it would shut up, put it down and
it would scream again. The second week (it was at weekly handling classes)
the puppy would scream each time it was asked to move (not just yelps but
minute long screams). The third week the puppy screamed as he was moved
around the ring - the whole time!!! He would trot and scream at the same
time. WE were at a park and wondered how long it would take neighbors to
come see what was happening.
Carol Hunter
at 6200 feet in Vernon, AZ
Zone 6
<
I
get her leash down she starts dancing as she knows we're going some place.
Once
in awhile I catch her standing on her hind legs sniffing the leash. Don't
know
the reason for that as she usually comes up and bumps my leg when she wants
to
go out at night.
George>>
> I think that it boils down to: if you love your pets you keep them under
control
> and don't let them wander willy-nilly. A lady down the street was talking
about
> her cat coming up missing. Seems she turned it out during the day while
she was
> working. Either animal control got it or a fox did. We have a family of urban
> foxes that live nearby in a wooded are. Animal control is looking into a
French
> method of vaccinating wild foxes against rabies. Seems they use baited
packets
> with the vaccine inside.
> Sleepy is a sight hound but is able to wear a collar and was easy to leash
> train. Oh yeah, she hollered and complained at first but accepted it. Now
if I
> get her leash down she starts dancing as she knows we're going some place.
Once
> in awhile I catch her standing on her hind legs sniffing the leash. Don't
know
> the reason for that as she usually comes up and bumps my leg when she
wants to
> go out at night.
> George
Tell Sleepy I think she's a sweet dog, and not likely to get into trouble
like my dog Tathers does. Here we have a ton of apricots on each of two
trees, first time in at least ten years the fruit has set and gotten this
big (about walnut size now), so we've been thinning a big as we pass,
dropping fruit on the ground. Well, guess who can't wait for the fruit to
ripen. Seeds and all, throughout the scolding and demands to drop it, etc.
Swallers 'em whole, sometimes, other times he takes his sweet time and
chews every bite. Sigh. So far no upchucking or diarrhea attributable to
green apricots, knock on wood. Margaret L
On Monday, May 29, 2000 10:16 PM, LrdRas@AOL.COM [SMTP:LrdRas@AOL.COM]
wrote:
> 1. Cats are not trained to lease easily and their head structure makes
> slipping their collar much easier than a dog.
My cats never go outside. They are safer indoors, and as domestic animals
(yes, domestic, not wild animals with abilities to fend for themselves in
the wild), should be controlled. We control dogs, horses, goats, cattle,
guinea pigs, bunnies, so why not control our other housepets? As Brenda
mentioned, cats are easily trained to a harness type of collar, as was my
tiny Chihuahua, Maggie, who can slip a regular collar. If you are a
responsible pet owner, you should control your pet and not allow it to roam
the neighborhood causing problems. If you can't control your pet, then you
aren't a responsible pet owner--my personal opinion, as well as that of
many other birdwatchers and environmentalists and animal lovers.
> 2. Cats dig a hole and bury their waste products Dogs do not.
Yes, if they do dig that hole, they dig it in my driveway, my vegetable
gardens and in my sand and compost piles. YECH! Why would I want to play
with that soil???
> 3. Dogs attack people while cats rarely if ever do so.
My brother underwent a series of rabies shots two months ago from a cat
bite. I know several people who have suffered from cat bites, but no one
who has had to have shots for dog bites. Possibly because more dogs are
under control.....?
> 4. The laws set in place in the middle ages regarding the confinement and
> control of feral cats resulted in furthering the spread of rodent carried
> bubonic plague. Since the rodent carried hannavirus is now spreading on
the
> east coast as well as in the West, such laws would, in affect, allow an
> increase in the rodent population and facilitate the spread of this
deadly
> disease. So such laws are clearly not in the best interest of the health
and
> welfare of society at this time. Lest the 'rabies' argument rear it's
head,
> those infected with the hannavirus must be ventilated within 24 hours of
the
> onset of symptoms. The rare rabies victim has 10 days to begin
treatments.
> from.
You are assuming that cats kill only unwanted pests, but this isn't so.
Owners who allow cats to roam permit their pets to kill birds that are
protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, as well as birds and other
animals protected by the Endangered Species Act.
"Cats were brought to North America in large numbers in the latter part of
the 19th century to help control the burgeoning rodent populations
associated with the spread of agriculture. Some people presume that a cat
killing certain animals, such as field mice, is beneficial, but native
small mammals are important to maintaining biologically diverse ecosystems.
Mice and shrews are an important food source for birds such as the Great
Horned Owl, Red-tailed Hawk and American Kestrel."*
Unvaccinated cats can transmit rabies and cats are the domestic animal most
frequently reported rabid to the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention. Here in Pennsylvania, the idiot law states that indoor cats
must have rabies shots, but feral and free-roaming cats are not required to
have the shots! Therefore these cats can and do contribute to the spread
of rabies.
Hantavirus is not spread by the common house mouse. It is spread primarily
by deer mice, as well as the white-footed mouse, rice rat and cotton rat.
Athough dogs and cats are not known to carry the virus, they CAN help to
transmit it by catching and bringing infected rodents into contact with
people by carrying them home. If your cat brings home a mouse, dead or
wounded, handle the mouse with rubber gloves and thoroughly disinfect the
gloves and wash your hands. Use the same precautions in any area where
there is evidence of mice.
> Just a thought......
> John
I know that the issue of allowing cats to roam vs. confinement indoors can
become a very hot subject, but reading up on the pros and cons of the
situation will help everyone to make a much more informed decision. *Please
go to this website to learn more about the problems resulting from allowing
cats to roam freely: http://www.abcbirds.org/catsindoors.htm
Lee Ann
I think that it boils down to: if you love your pets you keep them under control
and don't let them wander willy-nilly. A lady down the street was talking about
her cat coming up missing. Seems she turned it out during the day while she was
working. Either animal control got it or a fox did. We have a family of urban
foxes that live nearby in a wooded are. Animal control is looking into a French
method of vaccinating wild foxes against rabies. Seems they use baited packets
with the vaccine inside.
Sleepy is a sight hound but is able to wear a collar and was easy to leash
train. Oh yeah, she hollered and complained at first but accepted it. Now if I
get her leash down she starts dancing as she knows we're going some place. Once
in awhile I catch her standing on her hind legs sniffing the leash. Don't know
the reason for that as she usually comes up and bumps my leg when she wants to
go out at night.
George
Carol Hunter wrote:
We have to have our cats liscenced, which requires up to date shots. There
was some kind of paperwork problem at my sis's vets and they almost had to
go to court to defend themselves from a criminal complaint when one of
their cats died. It was kind of funny but not when you had to look at
taking a day off work to go tell a judge that your cat had died and that's
why you didn't take it to the vet for shots.
Esther
I've caught Sleepy eating boysenberries and blueberries off the vine and bush.
Just the ones she can reach with all fours on the ground. My fault as I gave her
some a year or so ago. She'll eat almost any veggie unless its pickled. Really
loves carrots, fresh or cooked, and even eats cabbage but not chard. Won't eat
tomatoes but will eat lettuce. Since I've pretty much trained her not to eat
anything unless I tell her it's okay she doesn't graze much. I'll put her food
in her bowl and she will stand by until I say "Okay." She then eats what she
wants. She is a sweet dog, left her alone for 5 hours this afternoon while I
went to a nearby town to do some training for a client. She greeted me at the
gate as usual, dancing and "talking" to me, then proceeded to pee on my foot as
she usually does. I think my right shoe has been "tanned" enough to last
forever. Right now she's bumping my leg telling me she wants to go out and chase
squirrels but I've gotta go or its no fun.
George
margaret lauterbach wrote:
Ahem, Rat Terriers are working sight hounds, Afghans are big, long-haired sissy
dogs since they've been in this country.
George
Carol Hunter wrote:
I don't remember who observed that this is a hot topic, but they were
right. And I don't want to add fuel to this fire that seems to be
heating up, but...
Up front, I will say I am a cat person, and, although I don't claim to
be an expert in animal behavior, I have to defend the felines as best I
can. I don't dislike dogs, they're just too energetic for me. And I've
never been around a dog whose nose didn't go straight for my crotch. And
I don't think I could stand having a pet who eats poop. To quote a
friend, her dog thinks the cat poop in the litter box are "bonbons."
Cracked me up, but yuck!
> My brother underwent a series of rabies shots two months ago from a cat
> bite. I know several people who have suffered from cat bites, but no one
> who has had to have shots for dog bites.
But seriously, as an emergency room nurse for 12 years, I can *assure*
you that people do have to get shots because of dog bites. And in the
entire 12 years, I NEVER saw a patient who was mauled by a cat--but
quite a few who were bitten/mauled by dogs. In my personal and
professional experience, most people who are bitten by cats are bitten
by their own cats. Or get cat-scratch fever from their own cats over a
period of time. I have never seen a feral cat run up to and bite
people--unless they're rabid, maybe, or backed into a corner. And in
that case, if I were a cat (or a dog, for that matter), I'd bite too.
Feral cats run from people. I belong to a cat list with members who try
and try to trap feral cats to have them spayed or neutered, and they
really have to work at catching them. They are scared of humans. There
are two around my house now that I'm trying to catch, and I can't get
near them.
Yes, cats do crap in gardens, but so do dogs. But, I never stepped in
cat crap in my grass. I HATE the feeling of dog crap squishing up
between my toes and I get it all the time. (Shudder) I should be able to
walk barefoot in my own yard if I want to, I think, but I have to do so
very carefully.
I have 4 cats. They are indoors only. They don't bother anyone--but I
think I am a responsible cat owner. My cats don't go outside--even on a
leash. Why take them out? There is no need for them to go outside. BUT
my next door neighbor's dog tears up my garden. And, BACKED ME DOWN AND
GROWLED AT ME ON MY OWN DECK AND MY OWN CARPORT!!!!!!!!!!! I can't tell
you how pissed off this made me!! And when I complained I got these
replies: "She's doing better." (Than WHAT!!??) and "I don't believe she
did that." This from people we've lived beside of for 27 years, and
never had reason to doubt my word BD (before dog).
So, despite my rambling, my point is there are two sides to every issue,
and usually the blame is with the owners, not the animals. They are just
being what they are: dogs and cats, and doing what they know to do. And
both species can be annoying and destructive.
Barbara A. in Virginia (Zone 7)
http://www.banders.com
Possibly because more dogs are
Every now and then we have TV news about some kid getting mauled by a pit
bull. I remember one boy named Stephen in the Pittsburgh area who was
very badly injured (near death), they did a follow up several years later
after all the cosmetic surgery and he still looks all scarred. That poor
child will never look normal.
Karen in zone 6/5b
Pittsburgh, PA
On Wed, 31 May 2000 10:59:55 +1000 John Harman
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I have never in my entire life been scared of a cat. OTOH there have
been a number of times when I was scared to death of what a dog would
do--with good reason. Which is probably why I'm not a dog lover.
Karen in zone 6/5b
Pittsburgh, PA
________________________________________________________________
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In a message dated 5/30/00 1:39:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pinkbm@HOME.COM
writes:
<< I just feel that cat owners, in general (yes, I
know there are responsible cat owners out there, just as there are
responsible
dog owners), tend to take a lazy attitude when it comes to the damage that
their
cats do in the neighborhood. They seem to be able to put up with the damage
in
their own yards, but don't think about the neighbors >>
Here we agree. My 2 cats are inside cats and have never ventured out doors.
:-)
John
(zone 5-more or less)
Happened to read an tip in a magazine yesterday about this subject. The =
gardener mulches her garden using pine cones, preferring ponderosa pine, =
and has good success with repelling cats and dogs. Suppose it helps if =
you love in an area with lots of pine trees.
Penny
<< Ever heard of anyone have their faces ripped open by a cat, like
the disfigured kids that innocently tried to pat a dog ?? Or the old lady
mauled to death by two german shepherds in her own backyard?? Or the baby
torn to pieces by two 'pet' Bull terriers who were apparently 'jealous' of
the new arrival ?? Cats aren't capable of these kinds of attacks even if
Pitting the two species against each other (or the two sets of partisan pet
lovers against each other) isn't going to solve the problem - the problem
being damage done by the dogs and cats that are allowed to run free. The
problem isn't the dogs and cats but the dog's and cat's OWNERS. Loose pets
do damage. Cats and dogs.
<a lot of people have a neurotic attitude towards dogs.>>
And cats too John.
<
to roam at will?>>
Yeahhh Lee Ann!!
Carol Hunter
at 6200 feet in Vernon, AZ
Zone 6
Ever heard of anyone have their faces ripped open by a cat, like
the disfigured kids that innocently tried to pat a dog ?? Or the old lady
mauled to death by two german shepherds in her own backyard?? Or the baby
torn to pieces by two 'pet' Bull terriers who were apparently 'jealous' of
the new arrival ?? Cats aren't capable of these kinds of attacks even if
they wanted to, and most cats run from you, a dog will cross the street to
bite you, I know from experience.
Lets get real, dogs are much more dangerous animals than cats.
Some breeds have been rightly banned in this country. Dogs will attack
people without provocation. They are also responsible for attacks on other
animals. Whilst there are many responsible dog owners, there are also many
who are not. Dumped dogs make up most of the population of wild dogs
killing livestock in this country. We spend millions on dollars dropping
baits from aircraft trying to kill them off, or at least control them.
Comparing dogs to cats is like comparing apples to oranges. Cats
kill birds because thats their natural prey. The terrier next door killed
my chickens, the bull terrier down the road killed their neighbours sheep
just for the hell of it. None of them were eaten. Both species will kill
because it's their natural instinct, no matter how well fed.
Both can be socially unacceptable pests.
John
John is echoing Aussies' antipathy toward pet dogs. I've seen and heard it
from visiting Aussies. They don't understand our devotion to dogs. He is
right about the dogs that kill and ravage people. He is wrong in the
relative kindness of cats. I don't have cats any more. I did when I was a
kid, and that cat was the filthiest creature known to man. Bearing litter
after litter of dead kittens. Yukkk. And we had named her "Princess" to
boot. I like cats as long as they like me. But when they roll onto their
backs to have their tummies stroked, I've learned to be wary because that's
usually a sure sign they're going to sink their teeth into your thumb. That
can put you out of commission with that hand for weeks, if it doesn't end
up costing you your hand.
We have leash laws for dogs, and some gun-totin' rednecks who think the law
doesn't apply to their junkyard dogs don't have them on leashes. They need
to have their fannies (sorry about that, John) thrown in jail. And as for
those who say "it's not the breed's fault, it was the dog owner who trained
him wrong," that's BS too.Cocker spaniels, Cairn terriers, Lhasa Apsos,
golden retrievers, etc., don't kill people. Bull terriers, Rottweilers and
German Shepherds do.
I sort of feel like I've dodged a bullet since Lee Ann didn't mention dogs
killing birds...Margaret L
> Apparently John, your experiences are the total opposite of mine. Granted,
> when a dog attacks, it can do more damage, but cats attack more often IMHO.
Do more damage !! What like killing people !!
The cases quoted in my post made headline news here, not my
experience, and I know of such attacks in the US. Cat attacks !! You have
to be joking.
The owner of the two shepherds that killed the old lady
actually tried to stop the police from shooting the two dogs. Luckily
sanity prevailed and the dogs were destroyed. The horrible thing was that
the owners were more concerned with saving their dogs, than the fact that
a person had been killed by them. Talk about sick society. I suggest that
a lot of people have a neurotic attitude towards dogs.
I'd rather fight off a cat than a Rottweiller anyday. :)
John
Does it hurt if you just "live" in an area with lots of pine trees?
George
Penny Nielsen wrote:
<
him wrong," that's BS too.Cocker spaniels, Cairn terriers, Lhasa Apsos,
golden retrievers, etc., don't kill people. Bull terriers, Rottweilers and
German Shepherds do.>>
Size could have something to do with it - also what the dog was bred to do.
And the owner can make or break a dog.
Carol Hunter
at 6200 feet in Vernon, AZ
Zone 6
Actually, now that you mention it....Maggie (your little namesake) attacked
a bird in April which I took to the wildlife rehabber. I didn't realize at
the time what had happened, till later when I discovered she loves to chase
birds.
8-)))
(You _had_ to bring it up, didn't you!)
Lee Ann
On Wednesday, May 31, 2000 1:34 PM, margaret lauterbach
[SMTP:mlaute@MICRON.NET] wrote:
> I sort of feel like I've dodged a bullet since Lee Ann didn't mention
dogs
Sleepy loves to chase birds. Being black and white she's not stealthy enough to
sneak up on them and has trouble jumping 10 feet in the air to catch them. She
successfully kept the mockingbirds and cardinals out of my blueberries,
raspberries, and boysenberries this year. The mockers eat a lot of insects so I
don't mind them too much but the redbirds are seed eaters and will peck the heck
out of a tomato or a pepper. Know they're not after water as a birdbath is
within 20 feet in my yard and 50 feet away is another in the neighbors yard.
It's certainly funny to watch a little dog leap in the air and then look
disappointed when she catches nothing.
George
Lee Ann Reiners wrote:
Surely can. I have a friend who has pit bulls I would leave with my grandkids
and yet I know other pit bulls I wouldn't get around myself. In the interest of
safety I keep myself and the kids away from big dogs excepting retrievers. I'm
getting too old to climb trees anymore.
George
Carol Hunter wrote:
The dog that attacked Mindy was a golden retriever/Irish setter cross....
There are exceptions to every rule, I guess.
I have a friend who had a pit bull which had been used in the fighting pits--
he inherited the dog when the original owner died. This dog was a sweetheart,
with a good, kind owner.
Lee Ann
George wrote:
> Surely can. I have a friend who has pit bulls I would leave with my grandkids
and yet I know other pit bulls I wouldn't get around myself. In the interest of
safety I keep myself and the kids away from big dogs excepting retrievers. I'm
getting too old to climb trees anymore.
George
<
> I like cats as long as they like me.
.... you should have see the little kitten Domingo - he likes me so much
that I hardly can walk now and then - when he see me he come running
jumping around my feets with the row straight up in air, and wants to be
taken up and clapped and cosed with - just tripping around and looks up at
me - waiting for a hug - and if I don't he sometime jump on my feet to have
me to take him up - and if I start walking that is kind of dangerous
because he runs between my feet and do not know where to set them - it is
better carry him :) - he loves that and just stay there so realxed - so
unlike his brother and sister thou are cute too.
:) Arnhild - z8'er in chilly latitude 60 - Hardanger in Norway
*All the flowers of all the of tomorrows are in the seeds of today*
Oh John--what do you think about my new little dog, Maggie? A Chihuahua.
She doesn't fit into any category you mentioned.... Hair is too short to
prune like Fifi, tail is too curly to fluff like George, and our backyard,
even though it is now totally saturated with so much water from tonight's
storms, is bigger than 20 sq. ft. Actually, Chihuahuas were originally
bred for food. Tasty little, and I do mean _little_, tidbits.
At least she'll deter the house thieves...... ;-))) Either her or the
rifle. Oops, the rifle isn't loaded. I'll have to sic the attack bunny on
the intruders!
Lee Ann, wringing out the basement from the storms
> On Wed, 31 May 2000, margaret lauterbach wrote:
> John is echoing Aussies' antipathy toward pet dogs. I've seen and heard it
> from visiting Aussies. They don't understand our devotion to dogs. He is
Well that was true many years ago, but not anymore. Most Aussie
breeds are working dogs, blue heelers, kelpies, and that was what they
were bred for. Now people keep all of the breeds like fashion statements.
You see people with shepherds and afghans who live in little terrace
houses with 20 foot square backyards in the middle of Sydney. They gather
in the local parks and talk shit like "Oh doesn't little Fifi look lovely
with her new haircut !" "Oh and doesn't George look gorgeous with his tail
all fluffed up like that !" Makes me puke.
Actually, one thing I noticed when I moved to the bush, was that
country people don't keep as many dogs as city people do. I suspect that
many city people buy dogs as a deterant for house thieves.
John
<<
In a message dated 5/31/00 11:51:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
harmanj@AGRIC.NSW.GOV.AU writes:
<< Bred for food! You'd need a dozen to make a meal. :) They always
look to me like they're on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
John
Chihuahuas were specifically bred for food by the Aztecs. This dog and the
turkey were the only domestic food animals raised by the Aztec nation. They
have been downsized (as have many breeds of dogs) in the past century so the
creature you see today called 'Chihuahua' is very unlike his 16th century CE
ancestor.
John
(zone 5-more or less)
Wouldn't you be nervous all the time if people kept looking at you and licking
their lips? ;-)
George
John Harman wrote:
Re: All kinds of Dogs -
Just a thought, John. Some people want guns and dogs for protection
from the predatory members of society. If they can afford a whole
alarm system they have one, if not, maybe a "good dog" like a
shepherd, rottweiller, or pit bull. I used to see Weimerainers (sp?)
for sale, but now it rottweillers as the favorite. As a breed they
are more aggressive and territorial.
I don't want a dog that is a potential law suit.
Just my 2 cents.
June
That's because they are. Look at the world from their perspective, and
everything is threatening. So many soles...Margaret L
Me neither. Sleepy is my guard dog. Jump on me and she'll give your pants legs
hell.
George
"june m. dean" wrote:
We've tended to have small dogs over the years. Our last dog and our
present one are about knee high. our first dog was a beagle, and you don't
need a vicious animal to protect yourself, all you need is a barker. Chuck
went out of town, and the following morning, about 5 a.m., beagle went
outside, jumped back inside the dog door and barked furiously. I got up and
started turning on lights. I didn't notice until late that morning that
someone had tried to block the dog door with a sawhorse that had been
sitting several feet distant. Some nincompoop who had seen too many movies
on burglary cut a screen in our study (they lift off with a pry from a
screwdriver), and was frightened off by barking dogs. The day after we got
Sparty (knee high, and aggressive runner, but a sweet guy), I found the
heel of a man's shoe just inside our back fence, with a jillion nails
protruding upward. Right in the middle of the dog path. I can figure that
one out, too.
We keep our dogs fenced in, but they are allowed on any piece of furniture
they like, and are allowed to sleep in our bed. They are loved and spoiled.
We like for them to kill voles, and some of them do a good job. Sparty was
too polite about disturbing growing things in the garden to do a very good
job. But when we started winter dismantling, he was thorough and aggressive
and happy. Our "new to us" dog is a wire-haired fox terrier cross with
another terrier. 5 years old and acts like a puppy. He attacks creatures on
the television screen (sigh), is suprised there is nothing in his mouth
after such a chomp, and gets into some mindless barking at neighbor dogs,
their canine guests, cats and squirrels. He's also eating almond-sized
green apricots, and I think I see some evidence of loose stools. Other than
all of that, he's quite loveable. ;-))) Karen just doesn't know what she's
missing. Margaret L
> John is echoing Aussies' antipathy toward pet dogs. I've seen and heard it
> from visiting Aussies. They don't understand our devotion to dogs. He is
Well that was true many years ago, but not anymore. Most Aussie
breeds are working dogs, blue heelers, kelpies, and that was what they
were bred for. Now people keep all of the breeds like fashion statements.
You see people with shepherds and afghans who live in little terrace
houses with 20 foot square backyards in the middle of Sydney. They gather
in the local parks and talk shit like "Oh doesn't little Fifi look lovely
with her new haircut !" "Oh and doesn't George look gorgeous with his tail
all fluffed up like that !" Makes me puke.
Actually, one thing I noticed when I moved to the bush, was that
country people don't keep as many dogs as city people do. I suspect that
many city people buy dogs as a deterant for house thieves.
John
Because after petting a cat and smelling your hand, your nose is so full of
cat hair you can't smell it.
bulldog) have an offensive body odor. Scottish terriers and Cairns that I
know of have a sweet body odor. Unfortunately, it apparently attracts
coyotes in search of a meal. My Cairn's body smelled like sweet alfalfa,
even when he was in need of a bath. Ask Debbie Green what her dog smells
like. Maybe you think alfalfa smells bad...hmmmmm. I don't care if you
don't like dogs and never have one. I still say you're missing something
good. Margaret L
When she was a puppy she had a harness to go with her leash. Last year on her
birthday we gave her a new squeaky toy and a bright blue collar with a pretty
bow on it and a leash to match. She enjoyed the squeaky toy and the dog treats a
lot. ;-)
She barks if an animal or human enters our yard or comes to the door. She's
already scared off a couple of prowlers but the raccoons scare her so bad she
runs back in the dog door so fast it goes whappety whap whap several times. Last
night she kept alerting me to strange noises by perking up her ears and finally
by barking. I then heard a car door softly close. Slipped out the back door with
my big 6 cell Maglite and caught a neighbor's 12-year old son prowling my
vehicles and the neighbors. Marched him home and turned him over to his Dad.
When I walked away I could hear the kid hollering pretty good. Talked to the
mother this morning and she says the kid was looking for specific CD's that he
needed for "initiation" into a "gang." He told who the other kids were and all
the parents have been notified.
He's a big kid for his age and was very lucky in that he stood still when I hit
him with the spotlight and that he had nothing that looked remotely like a
weapon. I was carrying a 45 ACP pistol in my right hand, cocked and locked.
Scared me as bad as it did him but kids that young have been known to kill
people. I'm not going to kill someone for stealing from me but will protect me
and mine from harm if necessary.
I think he's basically a good kid that got in with some slightly bad kids.
Hopefully the other parents will take action to quell this activity. I told the
neighbor family (they only live two doors down across the street) that I had
reported it to a friend on the police department and he would see that extra
patrols are done in the neighborhood. All the "gang" live in our neighborhood
and the eldest is 13. Too much TV, too much peer pressure, who knows.
Yeah, Sleepy is a good ol' dawg. She's my therapy for high blood pressure and
she works better than prescription medicine. She got extra treats and petting
last night.
George
"june m. dean" wrote:
Hi George,
Your Sleepy Dog is just a good ol' dawg. Happy, friendly and
loveable. :)
When I retire, I'll get a dog - I want to have time to train it and
spend some time walking around with it. One neighborhood lady has
a little dog that she keeps on a leash and she walks the dog all
over the neighborhood stopping to talk to this one or that one,
and looking in this yard and that yard. Actually, the dog has
given her a bit more in life. :0 Before she only looked out the
window. I don't think her dog would be much defense, but it would
sound an alarm very quickly. It ain't big, but it ain't deaf either.
Best,
June
> Me neither. Sleepy is my guard dog. Jump on me and she'll give your pants
legs
Hi Margaret,
I grew up with a shepherd-collie mix type of dog. Smart and
easily trained and very good with children. Never had any
trouble with the dog, and he was mindful of our other pets
too. But at night, he knew an intruder from a guest.
I don't think he would have let him in the house without a
fight. I watched him once go up to the window and stand up
to look out and then hunker down with hackles bristling and
I knew someone was out there. No barking - just a low growl.
About 80 lbs. of sinew and bones would have come at him.
Whoever was out there must have been surprised to see the
dog come to the window sniffing and looking. People didn't
tend to argue with "Rocky".
Best,
June
Hi Margaret,
Yes, I do know what I'm missing. A smelly animal that would make more
work for me.
small terrier type dog named Bentley. She bathes him every week and that
dog still smells. If I pet him or he licks my hand---pheww--go wash.
Now that my kids are grown, I don't want to go back to being responsible
for an animal (fish don't count.) I never even got another cat to
replace the one I gave (loaned) to my MIL. Thank you, but I'll stay
dogless, although I will admit they are good at discouraging the casual
burgular. Question--why is it that I can pet a cat and my hand doesn't
smell, but when I pet a dog it does? Is it just the particular dog,
although this has happened with different dogs, or what?
Karen (dogless) in zone 6/5b
Pittsburgh, PA
On Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:45:25 -0600 margaret lauterbach
writes:
> all of that, he's quite loveable. ;-))) Karen just doesn't know what
> she's
> missing. Margaret L
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Hi George,
My niece has a dog (some kind of crossbreed shepherd) named
Thor and he was about a year old when Christmas rolled around.
He sat there while everyone went to the tree and got
presents and he figured out that there wasn't any for him.
Well. Off he went and sulked. Sulked all day. Was
absolutley miserable. At first they didn't know why Thor
was sulking. And then they figured it out and they
laughed. Made Thor even sulkier if possible. They
don't forget him any more. The dog knows. :0 He
gets presents now too and he likes them. You wouldn't
think a dog would sulk if he didn't get a present
when everyone else did, but that's the truth.
> When she was a puppy she had a harness to go with her leash. Last year on her
> birthday we gave her a new squeaky toy and a bright blue collar with a pretty
> bow on it and a leash to match. She enjoyed the squeaky toy and the dog
treats a
> lot. ;-)
> She barks if an animal or human enters our yard or comes to the door. She's
> already scared off a couple of prowlers but the raccoons scare her so bad she
> runs back in the dog door so fast it goes whappety whap whap several
times. Last
> night she kept alerting me to strange noises by perking up her ears and
finally
> by barking. I then heard a car door softly close. Slipped out the back
door with
> my big 6 cell Maglite and caught a neighbor's 12-year old son prowling my
> vehicles and the neighbors. Marched him home and turned him over to his Dad.
> When I walked away I could hear the kid hollering pretty good. Talked to the
> mother this morning and she says the kid was looking for specific CD's
that he
> needed for "initiation" into a "gang." He told who the other kids were and
all
> the parents have been notified.
> He's a big kid for his age and was very lucky in that he stood still when
I hit
> him with the spotlight and that he had nothing that looked remotely like a
> weapon. I was carrying a 45 ACP pistol in my right hand, cocked and locked.
> Scared me as bad as it did him but kids that young have been known to kill
> people. I'm not going to kill someone for stealing from me but will
protect me
> and mine from harm if necessary.
> I think he's basically a good kid that got in with some slightly bad kids.
> Hopefully the other parents will take action to quell this activity. I
told the
George, I'm like my old dog Rocky. I wouldn't go out there on a
bet. I'd call the cops and hunker down with a bat. :) Or grab
my portable phone and drive away in my car. :) - Right through the
garage door. :) Wouldn't even take the time to open it.
Thieves often travel in pairs, carry guns, and have no
thought what-so-ever about human life - unless it's their
own. We had a robbery up north here where two men tied
up seven Wendy's employees, taped their mouths, and then
shot them in the head. So far, five are dead. And for
what? A few hundred dollars?
Best,
June
Best,
June
Bred for food !? You'd need a dozen to make a meal. :) They always
look to me like they're on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
John
Next time I head to Pittsburgh, I'll take Maggie the Magnificent along to charm Karen and win her over!
Lee Ann
Sounds to me like you are petting the wrong dogs! My dog doesn't smell,
even sleeps under the blankets in bed with me. You'll love her when you
meet her! 8-)
Funny that cats, which lick themselves all the time and leave kitty spitty
behind, don't bother you, but dogs do. Maybe you just have a sensitivity
to dogs?
Lee Ann
On Thursday, June 01, 2000 1:17 PM, Karen Barker [SMTP:d-k-barker@JUNO.COM]
wrote:
That's okay.
Karen
On Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:05:27 -0400 Lee Ann Reiners
writes:
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I dunno. Supposedly Bentley gets a bath every week, but he's not my dog
so I can't say for sure. The other dogs, I have no idea. They're a lot
bigger so I wouldn't be surprised if they don't get bathed often.
I still wash my hands with cats before I eat, but no matter whose cat I
pet I can't smell it on my hand like with the dogs. I guess I'm just not
a dog person. My cat was a downstairs cat because she has angora fur and
it floats through the air onto everything (food.) I like birds, fish,
cats, and hamsters. Bunnies too, probably, and the other little critters
in the yard.
Karen in zone 6/5b
Pittsburgh, PA
On Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:28:12 -0400 Lee Ann Reiners
writes:
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http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Maybe cats don't bother her, BECAUSE they are cleaning themselves all the
time, whereas dogs aren't quite so vain. Just my 2-cents.
Shannon
I think that the dog is more costly, when you consider food, vet, fencing,
etc. for a lifetime.
Lee Ann
---------------------
You have to consider the cost/benefit ratio, Lee Ann!
Alarm systems don't keep your feet warm on a cold winter day. Alarm systems
don't help you exercise. Alarm systems can't go to the beach with you.
Alarm systems don't discourage door to door salespeople/religious
fanatics/politicians. Alarm systems don't eat the left over pot-roast.
Alarm systems can't put their muzzle on your knee and patiently & adoringly
gaze into your eyes when you've had a bad day. Alarm systems don't get cute
& goofy looks on their faces when you scritch 'that spot' on their chest.
All in all... in the dog vs. alarm system contest... in MY book, the dog
wins!
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kintala <-- my dog's very silly
web page
- T.
If they can afford the lifetime commitment of caring for a dog, they should
be able to afford an alarm system. I think that the dog is more costly,
when you consider food, vet, fencing, etc. for a lifetime.
Lee Ann
On Thursday, June 01, 2000 7:30 PM, John Harman
[SMTP:harmanj@AGRIC.NSW.GOV.AU] wrote:
to
Yes it's a catch 22 though. To keep an aggressive dog, you have to
confine it. If you keep it confined it gets neurotic and more dangerous.
People don't tend to exercise them either because they are
literally too strong for some people. I've seen a few people being 'taken
for a walk' by a big dog.
John
You don't have to sell me on dogs! Just ask Maggie, as she burrows under
the blankets to curl up tight against me each night...8-)
Actually, I was just commenting on the high cost of owning a pet. People
often don't consider that when they first adopt or buy a pet, and this
sometimes leads to abandonment, turnover to a shelter, neglect. The rescue
organization I adopted Maggie from charges a pretty penny for adoptions (to
support their rescue efforts). They feel that if you can't afford the
adoption fee, then you can't afford to keep a dog through all the vet bills
and such, its entire lifetime.
(And you can't dress an alarm system up in cute little doggy outfits and
show it off to friends!)
Lee Ann
On Friday, June 02, 2000 10:02 AM, teragram
[SMTP:teragram@RABBIT.NEWSPRESS.COM] wrote:
> I think that the dog is more costly, when you consider food, vet,
fencing,
systems
> don't help you exercise. Alarm systems can't go to the beach with you.
> Alarm systems don't discourage door to door salespeople/religious
> fanatics/politicians. Alarm systems don't eat the left over pot-roast.
> Alarm systems can't put their muzzle on your knee and patiently &
adoringly
> gaze into your eyes when you've had a bad day. Alarm systems don't get
cute
We had a librarian who used to work with us who was allergic to cats. But she
loved them, so still had several as pets, indoors. Her allergy doctor told her
to give the cats a "sponge bath" each day: bathe them with a washcloth,
without having to do the toal submersion thing, to remove the saliva from the
fur.
Lee Ann
-------------
Brenda wrote:
> Actually, Lee Ann is right. Turns out that most people aren't allergic to the
dander of cats, but the dried saliva on the hairs.
Brenda in Lethbridge
<<
Dogs, oh, that's not a plant...
Anne-Marie
________________________________
From: seedsofchange@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:seedsofchange@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shulamit lazarus
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 10:24 AM
To: seedsofchange@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [seedsofchange] cat repellent
does anyone know what plant repels cats?
Thanks nancy, They don't eat my stuff they shit in the mulch!
dogwood is!
I put plastic forks, spikes facing up around the edges of the beds to keep
the neighbors cats out.
