Cindy,
I just got back from a lecture by Rudy Mancke from "Nature Scene" on PBS .
He said "If it has leaves of 3 let it be" Count your leaves, if it has 5 it
could be virginia creeper, which , is not poisionous.
Rosalind
Greg & Cindy wrote:
Can someone give me a description of poison oak? A neighbor told me I have
bunch of it next to the house, but DH says she is wrong. Neither of us know
what it actually looks like though.
And if it is poison oak, do I just live with it, or how do I get rid of it?
Cindy
in GA, zone 7
Greg & Cindy wrote:
Poison oak is in the same family as poison ivy and is similar in
appearance. If you have oily-looking oak-like leaves arranged in
threes, you've most likely got poison oak. I'd get rid of it the same
way you get rid of poison ivy. Whether or not you want to bother
depends on where it is, exactly. If it's in brush that people don't
usually travel through, I'd leave it alone. If it's sprouting by itself
next to the house and looking like a weed, I'd get rid of it. If it's
coming up in a bed, I'd definitely get rid of it like any old weed.
BTW, _don't_ burn the refuse if you do take it out! The toxins are in
the oils, which are volatile and will be all through the smoke from it,
just like poison ivy. I don't even want to _think_ about having poison
ivy internally!
--
Botanical Name of the Week: Pachystachys - pretty plant, silly name...
If the last fifty years have produced 90% of the laborsaving devices in
the world, why doesn't anyone have time to get anything done?
Jim Gray
jjg@c-cor.com
Altoona, PA: Zone 6A
> Can someone give me a description of poison oak? A neighbor told me I have
> bunch of it next to the house, but DH says she is wrong. Neither of us know
> what it actually looks like though.
> And if it is poison oak, do I just live with it, or how do I get rid of it?
I doubt very much if you've got poison oak in Georgia, as it's native
to the western states. Try doing an "advanced" search on
http://www.hotbot.com with the "image" box clicked, and look for poison
ivy or poison oak for pictures.
As to control, glyphosate (Roundup and similar products) work well
if you follow instructions precisely. Check the directions at
http://www.roundup.com
Here's an old post of mine from rec.gardens on identifying
poison ivy, poison sumac, and poison oak.
-------------------
POISON IVY (Toxicodendron radicans = Rhus radicans = Rhus toxicodendron)
Found in a wide range of habitats, but in the midwest often seen in
disturbed woods, roadsides, and flood plains. Most widespread of PI, PS,
and PO. Small, slightly woody plant, or shrubby, or vining. LEAVES
ALTERNATE (= 1 leaf per node), TRIFOLIATE (= 3 leaflets), with pedicel
(leafstalk) and the CENTRAL LEAFLET WITH PETIOLULE (= leaflet stalk). The
lateral two leaflets are not distinctly stalked. Leaflets are a variety of
shapes, but generally ovate or obovate (roughly apple-leaf shaped).
Leaflets may be smooth-edged (entire), irregularly toothed, or shallowly
lobed. Leaves of one variant look like small oak-leaves (but look again!).
Leaves apple-green and shiny in the spring, deep green and often dusty in
the summer, turning a glorious reddish orange in the fall. Flowers tiny,
whitish, in clusters; fruits white berries in late summer or fall.
Closest look-alike: Box-elder seedlings (Acer negundo), which has
OPPOSITE, trifoliate leaves; the lateral two leaflets are often slightly
stalked. Older box-elders generally have 5 leaflets per leaf.
-----------------
POISON SUMAC (Toxicodendron vernix = Rhus vernix)
Shrub, to perhaps 15-20 ft tall, often branched from the base. LEAVES
ALTERNATE WITH 7-13 LEAFLETS, lateral leaflets without a petiolule
(leaflet stalk), TERMINAL LEAFLET WITH A STALK. MIDRIB OF THE LEAF WITHOUT
A PAIR OF WINGS OF TISSUE THAT RUN BETWEEN LEAFLET PAIRS. More small,
whitish berries in a long cluster. Usually in wetlands, Maine to
Minnesota, south to Texas and Florida.
Closest look-alikes: Staghorn sumac, Rhus typhina, which has clusters of
fuzzy, red fruits and toothed leaflets, and likes dry soils; Smooth sumac,
Rhus glabra, with bright red fruits and slightly toothed leaves; much
drier soil than PS.
-------------------
POISON OAK (Toxicodendron diversiloba = Rhus diversiloba=Toxicodendron
quercifolia)
Reputedly the worst of the bunch. Western states, though there's a lobed
form of poison ivy in the east often confused with poison oak. Erect
shrub, usually about 3-6 ft tall (to 12 ft!), bushy, with ALTERNATE LEAVES
OF THREE LEAFLETS, the LEAFLETS generally lobed slightly or as much as an
oak leaf; CENTRAL LEAFLET STALKED. Leaves generally bright, shiny green
above, paler below. Fruits are small whitish berries. Common on the west
coast, esp. low places, thickets and wooded slopes. Occasionally a
5-leafleted form is found.
Kay Lancaster kay@fern.com
just west of Portland, OR; USDA zone 8 (polarfleece)
Can anyone recommend an organic method of eradicating poison oak other than
hand pulling?
Thanks
Kevin
zodiacman wrote:
6 inches of mulch followed by cardboard and more mulch
or just plywood, this will eventually fail..
.... no substitute for grubbing it out if the goal is eradication
Rent a goat.
Seriously.
Cyndi
_______________________________________________________________________________
Oakland, California Zone 9 USDA; Zone 16 Sunset Western Garden Guide
Chemically sensitive/disabled - Organic Gardening only by choice and neccessity
_______________________________________________________________________________
"There's nothing wrong with me. Maybe there's Cyndi Norman
something wrong with the universe." (ST:TNG) cyndi@consultclarity.com
http://www.tikvah.com/
_________________ Owner of the Immune Website & Lists http://www.immuneweb.org/
Repeated overgrazing with goats was mentioned once upon a time.....
> zodiacman wrote:
> Can anyone recommend an organic method of eradicating poison oak other
than
Don't burn it on site when you do as some people have a reaction to even
the particulate matter of the smoke that will drift everywhere. How you get
rid of it? Ask at your local landfill dump. Or maybe someone on the list
knows.
Jim allAn zone 5 New York State
Northeastern USA.
could topdress w/ a slurry of poultry manure and compost followed by
more mulch previously mentioned---- after you ...dig it out
( grease up w/ vaseline maybe be4hand- not to mention protective
clothing)
--------------CB7DAF003114601DDB912504 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you mark where the poison oak is located and wait for it to go dormant in the winter, you can remove it with less hazard. If you need to remove it during it's active growth phase there are some things to keep in mind: * There is a topical on the market, I think it called 'tecnu?', which neutralizes the alkaloid. Apply it as soon as you are exposed and the resultant rash will disappear quickly. I don't know how fast it will work on people who have a severe histamine reaction to it though. It all depends on how fast you apply it. Calamine lotion only smears it around and doesn't do much. * Wear clothes and gloves you throw away afterwards. The alkaloid is remarkably tenacious. * Never burn poison oak. inhaled smoke is dangerous. You get the rash on the inside of your lungs. Cindy William Evans wrote: > > > could topdress w/ a slurry of poultry manure and compost followed by > more mulch previously mentioned---- after you ...dig it out > ( grease up w/ vaseline maybe be4hand- not to mention protective > clothing) --------------CB7DAF003114601DDB912504 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you mark where the poison oak is located and wait for it to go dormant in the winter, you can remove it with less hazard.
If you need to remove it during it's active growth phase there are some things to keep in mind:
There is a topical on the market, I think it called 'tecnu?', which neutralizes the alkaloid. Apply it as soon as you are exposed and the resultant rash will disappear quickly. I don't know how fast it will work on people who have a severe histamine reaction to it though. It all depends on how fast you apply it. Calamine lotion only smears it around and doesn't do much.
Wear clothes and gloves you throw away afterwards. The alkaloid is remarkably tenacious.
Never burn poison oak. inhaled smoke is dangerous. You get the rash on the inside of your lungs. Cindy
William Evans wrote: >
could topdress w/ a slurry of poultry manure and compost followed by
more mulch previously mentioned---- after you ...dig it out
( grease up w/ vaseline maybe be4hand- not to mention protective
clothing) --------------CB7DAF003114601DDB912504--
> Don't burn it on site when you do as some people have a reaction to even
> the particulate matter of the smoke that will drift everywhere. How you
get
> rid of it? Ask at your local landfill dump. Or maybe someone on the list
> knows.
Our local dump people said to burn it & not worry about it! Never called
them again!
Carol
> Don't burn it on site when you do as some people have a reaction to
even
> the particulate matter of the smoke that will drift everywhere. How you
> get
> rid of it? Ask at your local landfill dump. Or maybe someone on the
list
Good for you. In case you missed it there was another post that said the
smoke when inhaled would be just as bad only inside the lungs.
Jim allAn zone 5 New York State
Northeastern USA.
I can attest to the verity of that statement. You really DON'T want
Poison Oak/Ivy/Sumac internally!! As one who will get poison oak while
driving in a closed car through a county where it grows, I favor the goat
solution. They love the stuff!
Walker Bennett
e-mail:
Work
Home
Both
___________________________________________________________
Improved State Mottos - Hawaii:
Haka Tiki Mou Sha'ami Leeki Toru (Death to Mainland Scum, But Leave Your
Money)
__________________________________________________________
even
> the particulate matter of the smoke that will drift everywhere. How you
> get
> rid of it? Ask at your local landfill dump. Or maybe someone on the
list
Good for you. In case you missed it there was another post that said the
smoke when inhaled would be just as bad only inside the lungs.
Jim allAn zone 5 New York State
Northeastern USA.
You can get Octagon soap at this link:
http://www.ugwhite.com/octagonsoap.html
Bob
Laura McKenzie
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 7:56 PM
To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: poison oak
Bunny, I've tried AND tried AND tried vinegar on a particularly bad bunch
of it and while it killed the foliage, the vine kept coming back. The only
solution I've found is getting a rake, winding the ivy around the rake, and
then pulling. Use a stick to pull it off the rake. We dispose of it by
tossing it WAY out in the forest in an inaccessible part. We wash the rake
with a hose and detergent. THEN, I used that area to burn other things.
The vine had been pulled out of the ground so I wasn't burning ivy vine. I
believe burning other things over the area killed the roots enough that the
vine didn't come back.
I learned from another list (CherokeeHealth@yahoogroups.com) that washing
with Octagon soap is the way to go. I've found this works well. The soap
is very hard to find though.
Laura
Poison Oak thrives on acid soils. I would lime any area infested w/ latent
roots of same to change it's groweing environment, thereby deterring
recurrent grwoth.
I'd also tyreat the area as if I was trying to get rid of crabgrass. Only
i'd use "scrap" thin plywood sheet/ multiple layers of cardboard, in place
of tthe newspaper.
ANd don't forget the manure.
bille
I have a good case of poison oak, therefore have not been gardening much
per se. I was cutting weeds with gloves and long sleeve/pants on, but
to no avail. Somehow I touched the poisonous plant on my face, chest,
stomach and groin. I immediately went inside, washed my hands and arms
with soap and water, went into the bathroom and took a warm shower with
more soap. Guess soap doesn't work as well as alcohol at removing
poison oak, but I didn't know that then.
My immune system is so wound up now, that I only venture out to set the
hose and water; not to weed or spread compost under the camellia bushes.
But, I've found poisonous oak vines all over the backyard. I know I
don't want to torch it. NEVER! But, does anyone know if vinegar will
kill it?
And if you know of a sound solution to reduce the redness and heal my
damaged skin, I'd be much obliged.
Thanks.
Bunny
I have used Tea Tree oil( Melaleuca alternifolia) to help dry up the
running sores one gets w/ a run in w/ poison oak. Don't use it full
strength, bu t diltuted w/ a massage oil like almond/ jojoba/coconut, etc.
It can be pretty drying and harsh on the skin.
A soap made w/ Jewelweed can be helpful( "Farmers Friend" i think is one
name)
bille.
Bunny, I've tried AND tried AND tried vinegar on a particularly bad bunch
of it and while it killed the foliage, the vine kept coming back. The only
solution I've found is getting a rake, winding the ivy around the rake, and
then pulling. Use a stick to pull it off the rake. We dispose of it by
tossing it WAY out in the forest in an inaccessible part. We wash the rake
with a hose and detergent. THEN, I used that area to burn other things.
The vine had been pulled out of the ground so I wasn't burning ivy vine. I
believe burning other things over the area killed the roots enough that the
vine didn't come back.
I learned from another list (CherokeeHealth@yahoogroups.com) that washing
with Octagon soap is the way to go. I've found this works well. The soap
is very hard to find though.
Laura
Bunny, you have my sympathy; I've had it twice in my life and then found I
had a similar sensitivity to the oily/waxy leaved ivy up here in Washington
state (no ivy sensitivity while living in Los Angeles most of my life). The
only thing that every really soothed my symptoms was ice. It was better
than the 3% cortisone ointment the doctor reluctantly prescribed. I was
miserable for about 3 weeks that summer. I DEFINITELY would not recomment
what I tried my first time - an over the counter clear liquid that came with
a wooden popsicle stick with which the user was to scrape open the lesions
and then apply the liquid. I had a huge allergic reaction to that & could
barely open my eyes the next day, they and my face were so swollen.
Best of luck to you, and patience while you pass through this.
Shari in Shoreline (near Seattle), WA, zone 8
In a message dated 4/17/03 10:34:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sksnow@COX-INTERNET.COM writes:
<< And if you know of a sound solution to reduce the redness and heal my
damaged skin, I'd be much obliged. >>
Have you tried taking an antihistamine, like Claritin? They work for all
day and would damp the reaction to the oak. Also, try some cooled tea on your
skin.
Mary Ann
Burt's Bee's Poison Ivy soap was the only thing that gave me much help.
Take a lukewarm shower and use it on all the affected parts for an
hour or so of relief. I've had huge blistering reactions to both PI
and poison oak over the years. For immediate treatment, when you know
you've been exposed, or you think maybe have been, use a detergent soap
and cool water in a pinch or try to keep around a cleaner like Tecnu to
wash up with. Also, don't forget things like wiping down doorknobs and
railings that you might have spread the oil to on your way into the
house, and those darned shoelaces too. Nothing worse than getting it
AGAIN from your own shoelaces. Also, as you get to a point where
you're starting to heal, calendula lotion is a nice way to soothe the
affected skin without making it feel too "hot" like some oily products
will. And remember that it will go away completely give a little time.
I was sure those marble sized blisters that popped all over my arms
and face were going to leave scars, but they don't.
Regards, Laurie
Mill Valley, CA
Poison Oak is not Poison Ivy.
Boy, someone forgot to tell my poisen ivy -
billevans wrote:
Poison Oak thrives on acid soils. I would lime any area infested
w/ latent roots of same to change it's growing environment,
thereby deterring recurrent groth.
Boy, someone forgot to tell my poisen ivy - it thrives
on alkaline soils here. The soil is so alkaline that
I've made it a point to put trees in that thrive in
alkaline soils. Even all the compost, mulch, and other
organic methods only go so far - the water underground
here is alkaline. I only wish all the other plants
grew as well as the poisen ivy does.
I have had good luck with lots of compost, leaf mulch,
several layers of thick cardboard, and mulch on top of
that (free wood chip mulch from the electric company).
But the birds bring it right back so it's an on-going
battle.
Sam
billevans wrote:
Poison Oak thrives on acid soils. I would lime any area infested
w/ latent roots of same to change it's growing environment,
thereby deterring recurrent groth.
I'd also treat the area as if I was trying to get rid of
crabgrass. Only i'd use "scrap" thin plywood sheet/multiple
layers of cardboard, in place of the newspaper.
ANd don't forget the manure.
bille
I have read that applying hot water to the affected
areas will offer relief. I got a dose of poison ivy
over the weekend, and have been using the hot water
applications, and they do in fact work well. The
itching stops for a few hours.
John
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
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--0-98170272-1109344138=:44935
I've come across a tip about getting rid of poison oak by applying undiluted vinegar to the roots. Has anyone else tried this? I wonder also about the affects (of the vinegar) on nearby plants and the soil. The poison oak is uphill from an old oak tree I don't want to harm.
I've never reacted to poison oak or ivy - not yet anyway - but everyone else I know does and there are also people helping me out with projects on my land who don't want to go near it. So far no one has come to sell their religion door to door or I could borrow Pat's very clever idea! I loved that story.
Deanne
--0-98170272-1109344138=:44935
I've come across a tip about getting rid of poison oak by applying undiluted vinegar to the roots. Has anyone else tried this? I wonder also about the affects (of the vinegar) on nearby plants and the soil. The poison oak is uphill from an old oak tree I don't want to harm.
I've never reacted to poison oak or ivy - not yet anyway - but everyone else I know does and there are also people helping me out with projects on my land who don't want to go near it. So far no one has come to sell their religion door to door or I could borrow Pat's very clever idea! I loved that story.
Deanne
Deanne wrote:
> I've come across a tip about getting rid of poison oak by applying
undiluted vinegar to the roots. Has anyone else tried this?
I've heard of applying it to the leaves. It's supposed to dehydrate =
them,
thus temporarily denying nutrition to the plant. As long as the root =
system
is vigorous, however, there will be energy to sprout new leaves; thus, =
you
have to continue the vinegar application until the energy supply is
exhausted -- perhaps two years. Think of this as cutting new shoots =
from a
tree stump -- as long the roots have energy, after the tree is cut down, =
new
shoots will continue to appear. By cutting them off you are removing =
the
plant's energy and its ability to nourish itself via photosynthesis.
I have never used vinegar in this way. I wait until winter when I can
completely cover myself in heavy clothing and then pull the stuff out.
Bill Evans has suggested applications of calcium at ground level, but I
forget in what form. I think the purpose is promote microorganisms that
hasten root decay, but my understanding of his suggestion is too poor =
for me
to convey it accurately to you. I know that when he suggested it, I
considered it but worried about changing the soil pH for *everything =
else*
growing in the same area -- you have to understand that poison ivy is a
solid ground cover in some sections of our yard, not just the isolated
plant.
> I wonder also about the affects (of the vinegar) on nearby plants and =
the
soil.
One of the reasons I didn't use it, as the areas involved are quite
extensive the plants very thick and tall -- would take a lot of vinegar.
> The poison oak is uphill from an old oak tree I don't want to harm.
My experience is that if PI is *near* a tree, it's also growing thickly =
*on*
the tree, with a thick and extensive root system all around that tree. =
You
might want to track yours back to see if this is so. You'd have to get =
rid
of this "mother lode" if you want the surrounding area to remain free of =
the
PI.
> I've never reacted to poison oak or ivy - not yet anyway - but everyone
else I know does and there are also people helping me out with projects =
on
my land who don't want to go near it.
If it's not extensive and you're not allergic, why don't you pull it =
out?
But do be careful if you haven't recently tested your non-allergic =
status.
I've known people who once weren't, but late became, allergic.
> So far no one has come to sell their religion door to door or I could
borrow Pat's very clever idea! I loved that story.
Yeah, too bad I couldn't get them to help with the work, though!
Pat
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_01C4_01C51B4B.7B969350
Poison oak isn't a tree, it's a vine, closely related to poison ivy, =
Rhus radicans. In fact, they might even be two names for the same plant.
Very hard to kill an established plant.
Is hydrochloric acid organic?
Lee Ann
Is poison oak a real tree? If you want to kill a tree, a harsh way is to =
cut it down and bore a hole in the trunk and pour salt or hydrochloric =
acid in the hole. Continue until the tree is really dead. Hydrochloric =
acid is probably better than salt!
You can bore several holes, it goes faster then.
Carol
------=_NextPart_000_01C4_01C51B4B.7B969350
--0-681752133-1109373636=:49564
Some of the poison oak on my land seems to be turning into little trees, actually, most of it is growing like a vine around one of the established oaks - which seems to be the mother lode Pat suggested I check for. There is also, on the opposite side of the lot, a dense stand of low brush with leaves that look just like poison oak. Time to call the extension agent and ask what the heck that is.
The soil is soft right now so it was easy to pull up the roots of the uprights, and I cut back as much of the vine as pruning shears could handle, this afternoon I'm going back with a little saw for the rest. After taking the precautions of wearing heavy gloves and long sleeves/slacks etc and then got slapped in the face by one of the smaller pieces of vine I was pulling out - I love it. Now we'll find out if I'm still immune. I cleaned my face and glasses off with handi-wipes and then with rubbing alcohol back here at home, we'll see. Might as well go back and finish the job in the meantime!
Deanne
Lee Ann Reiners
Poison oak isn't a tree, it's a vine, closely related to poison ivy, Rhus radicans. In fact, they might even be two names for the same plant.
Very hard to kill an established plant.
Is hydrochloric acid organic?
Lee Ann
Is poison oak a real tree? If you want to kill a tree, a harsh way is to cut it down and bore a hole in the trunk and pour salt or hydrochloric acid in the hole. Continue until the tree is really dead. Hydrochloric acid is probably better than salt!
You can bore several holes, it goes faster then.
Carol
--0-681752133-1109373636=:49564Some of the poison oak on my land seems to be turning into little trees, actually, most of it is growing like a vine around one of the established oaks - which seems to be the mother lode Pat suggested I check for. There is also, on the opposite side of the lot, a dense stand of low brush with leaves that look just like poison oak. Time to call the extension agent and ask what the heck that is. The soil is soft right now so it was easy to pull up the roots of the uprights, and I cut back as much of the vine as pruning shears could handle, this afternoon I'm going back with a little saw for the rest. After taking the precautions of wearing heavy gloves and long sleeves/slacks etc and then got slapped in the face by one of the smaller pieces of vine I was pulling out - I love it. Now we'll find out if I'm still immune. I cleaned my face and glasses off with handi-wipes and then with rubbing alcohol back here at home, we'll see. Might as well go back and finish the job in the meantime! Deanne
Lee Ann Reiners <reiners@SURFERIE.NET> wrote:Poison oak isn't a tree, it's a vine, closely related to poison ivy, Rhus radicans. In fact, they might even be two names for the same plant.Very hard to kill an established plant. Is hydrochloric acid organic?Lee Ann ----- Original Message -----
Is poison oak a real tree? If you want to kill a tree, a harsh way is to cut it down and bore a hole in the trunk and pour salt or hydrochloric acid in the hole. Continue until the tree is really dead. Hydrochloric acid is probably better than salt!
You can bore several holes, it goes faster then.
Carol
--0-681752133-1109373636=:49564--
--0-51168236-1109387773=:69187
Deanne, If you pull it out, then cover yourself completely and wash or throw away what you were using. Also don't do it when it is hot, as when you get hot the pores in your skin open up and you have more of a chance to react. One day, I ran a 6 mile race and came home on an early warm spring day. I decided to tie up my very large Rue plant. I had to wrap my arms with the twine around the bush and I was wearing sweat pants ( thank goodness ) and a t-shirt. I got the same as poison oak poisoning from where my gloves ended to the sleeves of the t-shirt and on my neck and chin. It was not nice. I did not know Rue would do that. So, be careful of the poison oak, as I had never gotten it when other had in the past. Sue
Plant Spirit Herbals in No. Calif.
Patricia Ruggiero
Deanne wrote:
> I've come across a tip about getting rid of poison oak by applying
undiluted vinegar to the roots. Has anyone else tried this?
I've heard of applying it to the leaves. It's supposed to dehydrate them,
thus temporarily denying nutrition to the plant. As long as the root system
is vigorous, however, there will be energy to sprout new leaves; thus, you
have to continue the vinegar application until the energy supply is
exhausted -- perhaps two years. Think of this as cutting new shoots from a
tree stump -- as long the roots have energy, after the tree is cut down, new
shoots will continue to appear. By cutting them off you are removing the
plant's energy and its ability to nourish itself via photosynthesis.
I have never used vinegar in this way. I wait until winter when I can
completely cover myself in heavy clothing and then pull the stuff out.
Bill Evans has suggested applications of calcium at ground level, but I
forget in what form. I think the purpose is promote microorganisms that
hasten root decay, but my understanding of his suggestion is too poor for me
to convey it accurately to you. I know that when he suggested it, I
considered it but worried about changing the soil pH for *everything else*
growing in the same area -- you have to understand that poison ivy is a
solid ground cover in some sections of our yard, not just the isolated
plant.
> I wonder also about the affects (of the vinegar) on nearby plants and the
soil.
One of the reasons I didn't use it, as the areas involved are quite
extensive the plants very thick and tall -- would take a lot of vinegar.
> The poison oak is uphill from an old oak tree I don't want to harm.
My experience is that if PI is *near* a tree, it's also growing thickly *on*
the tree, with a thick and extensive root system all around that tree. You
might want to track yours back to see if this is so. You'd have to get rid
of this "mother lode" if you want the surrounding area to remain free of the
PI.
> I've never reacted to poison oak or ivy - not yet anyway - but everyone
else I know does and there are also people helping me out with projects on
my land who don't want to go near it.
If it's not extensive and you're not allergic, why don't you pull it out?
But do be careful if you haven't recently tested your non-allergic status.
I've known people who once weren't, but late became, allergic.
> So far no one has come to sell their religion door to door or I could
borrow Pat's very clever idea! I loved that story.
Yeah, too bad I couldn't get them to help with the work, though!
Pat
--0-51168236-1109387773=:69187Deanne, If you pull it out, then cover yourself completely and wash or throw away what you were using. Also don't do it when it is hot, as when you get hot the pores in your skin open up and you have more of a chance to react. One day, I ran a 6 mile race and came home on an early warm spring day. I decided to tie up my very large Rue plant. I had to wrap my arms with the twine around the bush and I was wearing sweat pants ( thank goodness ) and a t-shirt. I got the same as poison oak poisoning from where my gloves ended to the sleeves of the t-shirt and on my neck and chin. It was not nice. I did not know Rue would do that. So, be careful of the poison oak, as I had never gotten it when other had in the past. SuePlant Spirit Herbals in No. Calif.
Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop@EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:Deanne wrote:
>I've come across a tip about getting rid of poison oak by applying
undiluted vinegar to the roots. Has anyone else tried this?
I've heard of applying it to the leaves. It's supposed to dehydrate them,
thus temporarily denying nutrition to the plant. As long as the root system
is vigorous, however, there will be energy to sprout new leaves; thus, you
have to continue the vinegar application until the energy supply is
exhausted -- perhaps two years. Think of this as cutting new shoots from a
tree stump -- as long the roots have energy, after the tree is cut down, new
shoots will continue to appear. By cutting them off you are removing the
plant's energy and its ability to nourish itself via photosynthesis.
I have never used vinegar in this way. I wait until winter when I can
completely cover myself in heavy clothing and
then pull the stuff out.
Bill Evans has suggested applications of calcium at ground level, but I
forget in what form. I think the purpose is promote microorganisms that
hasten root decay, but my understanding of his suggestion is too poor for me
to convey it accurately to you. I know that when he suggested it, I
considered it but worried about changing the soil pH for *everything else*
growing in the same area -- you have to understand that poison ivy is a
solid ground cover in some sections of our yard, not just the isolated
plant.
> I wonder also about the affects (of the vinegar) on nearby plants and the
soil.
One of the reasons I didn't use it, as the areas involved are quite
extensive the plants very thick and tall -- would take a lot of vinegar.
>The poison oak is uphill from an old oak tree I don't want to harm.
My experience is that if PI is *near* a tree, it's also growing thickly *on*
the tree,
with a thick and extensive root system all around that tree. You
might want to track yours back to see if this is so. You'd have to get rid
of this "mother lode" if you want the surrounding area to remain free of the
PI.
>I've never reacted to poison oak or ivy - not yet anyway - but everyone
else I know does and there are also people helping me out with projects on
my land who don't want to go near it.
If it's not extensive and you're not allergic, why don't you pull it out?
But do be careful if you haven't recently tested your non-allergic status.
I've known people who once weren't, but late became, allergic.
>So far no one has come to sell their religion door to door or I could
borrow Pat's very clever idea! I loved that story.
Yeah, too bad I couldn't get them to help with the work, though!
Pat
--0-51168236-1109387773=:69187--
Is poison oak a real tree? If you want to kill a tree, a harsh way is to cut it down and bore a hole in the trunk and pour salt or hydrochloric acid in the hole. Continue until the tree is really dead. Hydrochloric acid is probably better than salt!
You can bore several holes, it goes faster then.
Carol
Deanne wrote:
> Some of the poison oak on my land seems to be turning into little =
trees,
actually, most of it is growing like a vine around one of the =
established
oaks - which seems to be the mother lode Pat suggested I check for. =
There
is also, on the opposite side of the lot, a dense stand of low brush =
with
leaves that look just like poison oak. Time to call the extension =
agent
and ask what the heck that is.
It's the poison oak. I think it has the same habit as poison ivy, in =
that
it grows both as a vine and as a loose shrub. When I spoke of being
thigh-high in PI and JH, it's because the PI was growing in an open area =
as
a shrub and the JH had mounded over it.
> The soil is soft right now so it was easy to pull up the roots of the
uprights, and I cut back as much of the vine as pruning shears could =
handle,
this afternoon I'm going back with a little saw for the rest.
Sounds a lot like the way I handled it.
> After taking the precautions of wearing heavy gloves and long
sleeves/slacks etc
I add protection for my wrists, in the form of old cotton socks with the
toes cut out. I pull these up over the sleeve and sweater cuffs, then =
grip
the other end with my fingers as I pull on my gloves. I learned the =
hard
way that it's easy for a gap to form between cuffs and glove top, and =
it's
easy while working to have the vines rub just in that area. That =
happened
my first winter here, when I was pulling JH and didn't recognize the PI
vines without their leaves!
I've also learned that a single layer, such as a long-sleeve cotton =
shirt,
does NOT protect me. This might not matter to you, if you're still not
allergic. I also wear flannel lined jeans, thick wool socks, and work
boots. All of which explains why I can only do this work in the winter.
> and then got slapped in the face by one of the smaller pieces of vine =
I
was pulling out - I love it. Now we'll find out if I'm still immune.
That happened to me a couple of times but the blows must have been very
glancing because no rash developed.
Pat
Sue wrote:
> Deanne, If you pull it out, then cover yourself completely and wash or
throw away what you were using.
If Deanne isn't allergic to PI or PO, then she doesn't have to take such
extreme measures. I'm allergic to PI and I don't wash my clothes after =
each
PI session. I can touch those same clothes and not be affected. My =
cats
supervise the PI work and I can pet them and not be affected. I'm =
affected
if any part of the plant comes into sound contact with my bare skin or
lightly covered skin. Depends on a person's sensitivity. And it's also
possible to have light rashes without cause for alarm -- it happens to
Husband and me frequently in warmer weather when we're less covered. We
keep the area clean and try not to scratch, but otherwise don't worry =
about
the rash.
Lest you think I must not be very sensitive, I assure you that given =
sound
and continued contact, I am! That first winter, when I said earlier =
that I
didn't recognize the PI vines without their leaves, I had oozing =
blisters up
and down my arms from February until May, off and on, from repeated =
contact.
I had to bandage my arms on two occasions when we attended dances, lest
people recoil from dancing with me, my arms looked so disgusting.
So I treat the plants with respect, staying away when they're in leaf, =
and
working with care in the winter.
Pat
--=====================_912782==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 21:05 25-02-2005, Lee Ann Reiners wrote: >Poison oak isn't a tree, it's a vine, closely related to poison ivy, Rhus radicans. In fact, they might even be two names for the same plant. >Very hard to kill an established plant. > >Is hydrochloric acid organic? >Lee Ann > No! But effective for killing trees, or rather, getting rid of stumps, and I do not think it would hurt the soil. Carol --=====================_912782==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 21:05 25-02-2005, Lee Ann Reiners wrote:
Poison oak isn't a tree, it's a vine, closely related to poison ivy, Rhus radicans. In fact, they might even be two names for the same plant.
Very hard to kill an established plant.
Is hydrochloric acid organic?
Lee Ann
No! But effective for killing trees, or rather, getting rid of stumps, and I do not think it would hurt the soil.
Carol --=====================_912782==.ALT--
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Sue, that's the kind of reaction that's exacerbated by sunlight. When =
that happens, go indoors asap and start disrobing and washing. Margaret =
L
Deanne, If you pull it out, then cover yourself completely and wash or =
throw away what you were using. Also don't do it when it is hot, as =
when you get hot the pores in your skin open up and you have more of a =
chance to react. One day, I ran a 6 mile race and came home on an early =
warm spring day. I decided to tie up my very large Rue plant. I had to =
wrap my arms with the twine around the bush and I was wearing sweat =
pants ( thank goodness ) and a t-shirt. I got the same as poison oak =
poisoning from where my gloves ended to the sleeves of the t-shirt and =
on my neck and chin. It was not nice. I did not know Rue would do =
that. So, be careful of the poison oak, as I had never gotten it when =
other had in the past. Sue
Plant Spirit Herbals in No. Calif.
------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01C51BC5.E6DC1F20
from what I read, someplace, it is the same plant, but called oak in
the western US and ivy in the eastern, because of the way it grows.
Although people here in VA call it oak.
susan
if you wear gloves, and than also "wear" plastic bags on your hands,
pull out the poison oak/ivy you can then turn the bags inside out, and=20=
throw away the weed bags and all. Pull it out after a soaking rain, too
susan
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You can get Ivy Block at the pharmacy to smear on your exposed areas to =
repel the urushiol, the oil in PI and PO that causes the reaction.
Many times, the reaction people have to these plants varies because of =
the intensity of the oil in each individual plant. I was in Florida =
once, canoeing, and got into PI, but the oil concentration was very low =
and I didn't have a reaction. You can also lose immunity at any time. I =
was immune to PI for about 10 years, then hit a particularly strong =
patch and that ended the immunity.
Lee Ann
------=_NextPart_000_0132_01C51BE1.0E05CD60
Many people think Poison Oak ("Rhus quercifolia") and Poison Ivy ("Rhus
radicans") are the same plant but they are not, cousins yes but not the
same. Poison Ive is more widespread than is Poison Oak and most people will
have the PI rather than the PO.
Kimm
Deanne Dale wrote:
What a sad story!!! I do hope that you /are/ fully immune ot the stuff -
however, be warned that that kind of immunity may change. If something
- like this encounter maybe - does get through your defences, you may
well be much more senitive to it in future.
I would strongly recommend to anybody doing this kind of work to obtain,
and wear, a full-face transparent safety shield.
These things are also very good if you are using a power tool (e.g. a
string trimmer), especially in dry, dusty conditions.
Tony
--
Tony & Moira Ryan,
Wainuiomata, North Island, NZ. Pictures of our garden at:-
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cherie1/Garden/TonyandMoira/index.htm
NEW PICTURES AND DIAGRAMS ADDED 20/Feb/2005
There is poison ivy in upstate New York and I remember we kids were very leary of it. I have seen it in woods, but never touched it, even when playing very roughly.
Carol
--0-1466428522-1109469687=:5829
I live in north TX. I have paid people that came to the house looking for work, twice, to pull my poison ivy, they get some up front money and never come back, why is that LOL. Any takers. I pay well:)
--0-1466428522-1109469687=:5829
I live in north TX. I have paid people that came to the house looking for work, twice, to pull my poison ivy, they get some up front money and never come back, why is that LOL. Any takers. I pay well:)
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Is hydrochloric acid organic?
Lee Ann
Hardly Lee Ann but it is the acid that digests our food in our =
stomachs so in that sense it is "safe".
john
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C51C3E.6DEFA860
Tony wrote:
> These things are also very good if you are using a power tool
> (e.g. a string trimmer), especially in dry, dusty conditions.
Deanne, I completely agree that you have to be very careful when using a
string trimmer around PI or PO, as the cuttings fly unpredictably all over.
We don't have a full-face shield, but we do have safety goggles.
Pat
Lee Ann wrote:
> You can get Ivy Block at the pharmacy to smear on your exposed areas to
repel the urushiol, the oil in PI and PO that causes the reaction.
You can also buy Technu for washing your skin *after* exposure.
> You can also lose immunity at any time. I was immune to PI for about 10
years, then hit a particularly strong patch and that ended the immunity.
That's why I'm always apprehensive at the start of the winter PI pulling
sessions, wondering if there's been any change in my status: will this be
the year, I ask myself, when thick clothing isn't enough?
Pat
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------=_NextPart_000_0327_01C51C45.93B3EA50
Keep a bar of good old-fashioned laundry soap handy and wash thoroughly =
after exposure, just to be on the safe side. Besides, laundry soap is a =
good exfoliant and makes your skin squeaky pink! 8-)
Lee Ann
Lee Ann wrote:
> You can get Ivy Block at the pharmacy to smear on your exposed areas to
repel the urushiol, the oil in PI and PO that causes the reaction.
You can also buy Technu for washing your skin *after* exposure.
> You can also lose immunity at any time. I was immune to PI for about 10
years, then hit a particularly strong patch and that ended the immunity.
That's why I'm always apprehensive at the start of the winter PI pulling
sessions, wondering if there's been any change in my status: will this =
be
the year, I ask myself, when thick clothing isn't enough?
Pat
------=_NextPart_000_0327_01C51C45.93B3EA50
I noticed that, as soon as we moved here. According to pictures and
descriptions, what we have here is PI, but all the locals call it PO.
Pat
Debbie wrote:
> I live in north TX. I have paid people that came to the house looking for
work, twice, to pull my poison ivy, they get some up front money and never
come back, why is that LOL. Any takers. I pay well:)
I don't think it has anything to do with the PI, but rather with their
general unscrupulousness. There are scam artists for every job that needs
doing around a house and yard, taking your money and promising to return at
a later date.
Pat
--0-619019436-1109487280=:81982
Good point about power tools. At the moment all I have to work with is a little handsaw and pruning shears, but next time I pull PO vines down out of the *real* oak tree I'll wear a hat with a sturdy brim and netting over my face or look for a face shield. Maybe beekeeper's headgear.
Luckily I still haven't seen any reaction to the vine hitting me, but - as you said in another message - who knows when my immunity will weaken and/or the strength of the PO will increase.
Now I'm wondering what the heck to do with all the PO I've cut down. Tie it up in plastic bags, label it, and take it to the dump? I can just imagine it growing new roots and coming back to life like something out of a horror movie (!), it's nasty stuff. I'd originally intended to plant barberry where the PO is being cut down and now hope the barberry will be able to overwhelm the poison oak roots.
Deanne
Patricia Ruggiero
Tony wrote:
> These things are also very good if you are using a power tool
> (e.g. a string trimmer), especially in dry, dusty conditions.
Deanne, I completely agree that you have to be very careful when using a
string trimmer around PI or PO, as the cuttings fly unpredictably all over.
We don't have a full-face shield, but we do have safety goggles.
Pat
--0-619019436-1109487280=:81982Good point about power tools. At the moment all I have to work with is a little handsaw and pruning shears, but next time I pull PO vines down out of the *real* oak tree I'll wear a hat with a sturdy brim and netting over my face or look for a face shield. Maybe beekeeper's headgear. Luckily I still haven't seen any reaction to the vine hitting me, but - as you said in another message - who knows when my immunity will weaken and/or the strength of the PO will increase. Now I'm wondering what the heck to do with all the PO I've cut down. Tie it up in plastic bags, label it, and take it to the dump? I can just imagine it growing new roots and coming back to life like something out of a horror movie (!), it's nasty stuff. I'd originally intended to plant barberry where the PO is being cut down and now hope the barberry will be able to overwhelm the poison oak roots. Deanne
Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop@EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:Tony wrote:
> These things are also very good if you are using a power tool
> (e.g. a string trimmer), especially in dry, dusty conditions.
Deanne, I completely agree that you have to be very careful when using a
string trimmer around PI or PO, as the cuttings fly unpredictably all over.
We don't have a full-face shield, but we do have safety goggles.
Pat
--0-619019436-1109487280=:81982--
--0-1660789629-1109487622=:56668
Do you mean Fels Naptha? That's what I used when I got home. I remembered that it's great at getting oil stains out of clothing and had read that it's the PO oil that carries the toxin, or whatever the proper term is. Maybe that's what saved me!
Deanne
Lee Ann Reiners
Keep a bar of good old-fashioned laundry soap handy and wash thoroughly after exposure, just to be on the safe side. Besides, laundry soap is a good exfoliant and makes your skin squeaky pink! 8-)
Lee Ann
Lee Ann wrote:
> You can get Ivy Block at the pharmacy to smear on your exposed areas to
repel the urushiol, the oil in PI and PO that causes the reaction.
You can also buy Technu for washing your skin *after* exposure.
--0-1660789629-1109487622=:56668Do you mean Fels Naptha? That's what I used when I got home. I remembered that it's great at getting oil stains out of clothing and had read that it's the PO oil that carries the toxin, or whatever the proper term is. Maybe that's what saved me! Deanne
Lee Ann Reiners <reiners@SURFERIE.NET> wrote:Keep a bar of good old-fashioned laundry soap handy and wash thoroughly after exposure, just to be on the safe side. Besides, laundry soap is a good exfoliant and makes your skin squeaky pink! 8-)Lee Ann ----- Original Message ----- Lee Ann wrote:
>You can get Ivy Block at the pharmacy to smear on your exposed areas to
repel the urushiol, the oil in PI and PO that causes the reaction.
You can also buy Technu for washing your skin *after* exposure.
--0-1660789629-1109487622=:56668--
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------=_NextPart_000_037A_01C51C8F.18B4A480
My bar of laundry soap is so old that I don't remember the brand name. =
It's brown and rough and cracked from age, but still works! I bet that =
Dawn dishwashing soap would work too, since it's so good at cutting =
grease and oil.
Lee Ann
Do you mean Fels Naptha? That's what I used when I got home. I =
remembered that it's great at getting oil stains out of clothing and had =
read that it's the PO oil that carries the toxin, or whatever the proper =
term is. Maybe that's what saved me!
Deanne
------=_NextPart_000_037A_01C51C8F.18B4A480
--0-755129084-1109515213=:49134
Thanks, that's something I could do - as long as there's nothing in the poison oak "remains" after a year that would reproduce the same awful stuff. Most of what I've cut down is very woody so it might need double bagging and mixing with something else.
Deanne
Carol Jensen
What I do with weeds like that (noxious weeds, I call them) is put them into black garbage bags and close the top with a stone or brick and leave them for a year, after which they (hopefully) are slime and can go on the compost heap.
Now and then a stone falls off, of course, and they only partially disintegrate. Or weeds are so woody that they rip holes in the garbage bag that I don't notice...
I can now put it all into the warm composter, which is something like the huge compost heap they have in a city near us, which gets the garden leavings from everone in every city near here, and makes a really huge compost heap or windrow. From this we get our city soil, which has the pH of 7.8!
Carol
--0-755129084-1109515213=:49134Thanks, that's something I could do - as long as there's nothing in the poison oak "remains" after a year that would reproduce the same awful stuff. Most of what I've cut down is very woody so it might need double bagging and mixing with something else. Deanne
Carol Jensen <jorna@MOBILIXNET.DK> wrote:What I do with weeds like that (noxious weeds, I call them) is put them into black garbage bags and close the top with a stone or brick and leave them for a year, after which they (hopefully) are slime and can go on the compost heap.
Now and then a stone falls off, of course, and they only partially disintegrate. Or weeds are so woody that they rip holes in the garbage bag that I don't notice...
I can now put it all into the warm composter, which is something like the huge compost heap they have in a city near us, which gets the garden leavings from everone in every city near here, and makes a really huge compost heap or windrow. From this we get our city soil, which has the pH of 7.8!
Carol
--0-755129084-1109515213=:49134--
--Apple-Mail-14-203094781
format=flowed
another washing trick is to rinse thoroughly in cold water before
washing after exposure. the warm water can spread the oils.
susan
--Apple-Mail-14-203094781
another washing trick is to rinse thoroughly in cold water before
washing after exposure. the warm water can spread the oils.
susan
a bar of good old-fashioned laundry soap handy and wash thoroughly
after exposure, just to be on the safe side. Besides, laundry soap is
a good exfoliant and makes your skin squeaky pink! =
8-)
Ann
=A0
-----
> You can get Ivy Block at the pharmacy to smear on your exposed areas
to
repel the urushiol, the oil in PI and PO that causes the reaction.
You can also buy Technu=A0 for washing your skin *after* exposure.
> You can also lose immunity at any time. I was immune to PI for about
10
years, then hit a particularly strong patch and that ended the
immunity.
That's why I'm always apprehensive at the start of the winter PI
pulling
sessions, wondering if there's been any change in my status: will this
be
the year, I ask myself, when thick clothing isn't enough?
Pat
--Apple-Mail-14-203094781--
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------=_NextPart_000_0408_01C51CB2.41AED360
This will not destroy the urushiol in the plants. Don't try to compost =
or burn any poison ivy or poison oak plants. Even baking them in a =
plastic bag for a year won't work. It's not something to experiment =
with. Get rid of it.
Lee Ann
Thanks, that's something I could do - as long as there's nothing in the =
poison oak "remains" after a year that would reproduce the same awful =
stuff. Most of what I've cut down is very woody so it might need =
double bagging and mixing with something else.
Deanne
Carol Jensen
What I do with weeds like that (noxious weeds, I call them) is put =
them into black garbage bags and close the top with a stone or brick and =
leave them for a year, after which they (hopefully) are slime and can go =
on the compost heap.
Now and then a stone falls off, of course, and they only partially =
disintegrate. Or weeds are so woody that they rip holes in the garbage =
bag that I don't notice....
I can now put it all into the warm composter, which is something like =
the huge compost heap they have in a city near us, which gets the garden =
leavings from everone in every city near here, and makes a really huge =
compost heap or windrow. From this we get our city soil, which has the =
pH of 7.8!
Carol
------=_NextPart_000_0408_01C51CB2.41AED360This will not destroy the urushiol in =
the plants.
Don't try to compost or burn any poison ivy or poison oak plants. Even =
baking
them in a plastic bag for a year won't work. It's not something to =
experiment
with. Get rid of it. Lee Ann ----- Original Message -----From:
DaleSent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:40 AMSubject: Re: Poison OakThanks, that's something I could do - as long as there's nothing in =
the
poison oak "remains" after a year that would reproduce the same awful
stuff. Most of what I've cut down is very woody so it might
need double bagging and mixing with something else. = Deanne
Carol Jensen <
wrote:
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">What
I do with weeds like that (noxious weeds, I call them) is put them =
into black
garbage bags and close the top with a stone or brick and leave them =
for a
year, after which they (hopefully) are slime and can go on the compost =
heap.
Now and then a stone falls off, of course, and they only
partially disintegrate. Or weeds are so woody that they rip holes in =
the
garbage bag that I don't notice....
I can now put it all into =
the warm
composter, which is something like the huge compost heap they have in =
a city
near us, which gets the garden leavings from everone in every city =
near here,
and makes a really huge compost heap or windrow. From this we get our =
city
soil, which has the pH of 7.8!
Carol =
------=_NextPart_000_0408_01C51CB2.41AED360--
--=====================_6322891==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:54 27-02-2005, Deanne Dale wrote: >Good point about power tools. At the moment all I have to work with is a little handsaw and pruning shears, but next time I pull PO vines down out of the *real* oak tree I'll wear a hat with a sturdy brim and netting over my face or look for a face shield. Maybe beekeeper's headgear. > >Luckily I still haven't seen any reaction to the vine hitting me, but - as you said in another message - who knows when my immunity will weaken and/or the strength of the PO will increase. > >Now I'm wondering what the heck to do with all the PO I've cut down. Tie it up in plastic bags, label it, and take it to the dump? I can just imagine it growing new roots and coming back to life like something out of a horror movie (!), it's nasty stuff. I'd originally intended to plant barberry where the PO is being cut down and now hope the barberry will be able to overwhelm the poison oak roots. > >Deanne > What I do with weeds like that (noxious weeds, I call them) is put them into black garbage bags and close the top with a stone or brick and leave them for a year, after which they (hopefully) are slime and can go on the compost heap. Now and then a stone falls off, of course, and they only partially disintegrate. Or weeds are so woody that they rip holes in the garbage bag that I don't notice... I can now put it all into the warm composter, which is something like the huge compost heap they have in a city near us, which gets the garden leavings from everone in every city near here, and makes a really huge compost heap or windrow. From this we get our city soil, which has the pH of 7.8! Carol --=====================_6322891==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 07:54 27-02-2005, Deanne Dale wrote:
Good point about power tools. At the moment all I have to work with is a little handsaw and pruning shears, but next time I pull PO vines down out of the *real* oak tree I'll wear a hat with a sturdy brim and netting over my face or look for a face shield. Maybe beekeeper's headgear.
Luckily I still haven't seen any reaction to the vine hitting me, but - as you said in another message - who knows when my immunity will weaken and/or the strength of the PO will increase.
Now I'm wondering what the heck to do with all the PO I've cut down. Tie it up in plastic bags, label it, and take it to the dump? I can just imagine it growing new roots and coming back to life like something out of a horror movie (!), it's nasty stuff. I'd originally intended to plant barberry where the PO is being cut down and now hope the barberry will be able to overwhelm the poison oak roots.
Deanne
What I do with weeds like that (noxious weeds, I call them) is put them into black garbage bags and close the top with a stone or brick and leave them for a year, after which they (hopefully) are slime and can go on the compost heap.
Now and then a stone falls off, of course, and they only partially disintegrate. Or weeds are so woody that they rip holes in the garbage bag that I don't notice...
I can now put it all into the warm composter, which is something like the huge compost heap they have in a city near us, which gets the garden leavings from everone in every city near here, and makes a really huge compost heap or windrow. From this we get our city soil, which has the pH of 7.8!
Carol --=====================_6322891==.ALT--
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------=_NextPart_000_0640_01C51CFC.08D91D30
Urushiol isn't a poison, it's an oil that causes a histamine reaction. =
Oils don't easily compost. From WebMD:
Dispose of the plants according to your local regulations. Do not =
compost the dead plants. Urushiol breaks down too slowly, and chopping =
the vines for the compost heap increases exposure to the oil.
And from Mother Earth News:
Poison Compost?
On my property there's a large mound of dried brush, about a third of it =
poison oak. I want to chip all this up and use it in my compost pile. =
Will the poison oak ruin my compost?
No, but it won't do you a whole lot of good.
During the composting process, the poison oak-including the urushiol =
oil, the irritating substance present in all parts of the plant-will =
break down into its component parts. Thus the finished compost will harm =
neither you nor your plants (no itchy tomatoes). No one seems to know =
just how long this decomposition will take, however. Poison oak is a =
woody plant, so it should require lengthy composting-six months, at =
least. If you do compost it, add plenty of nitrogenous material (manure, =
leather meal, etc.) to assure a "hot" pile, which will cook faster.
Meanwhile, that pile will be hot in another sense. Like poison ivy, =
poison oak becomes more toxic as it dries; it loses mass (water), and =
the urushiol oil becomes more concentrated. If you're allergic to the =
weed, it's going to be a long, unpleasant winter as you chip the brush =
and build and turn the compost. Unless you and yours are allergy-free, =
I'd recommend against composting.
The standard way to dispose of cleared poison oak is to bury it, thus =
handling it only once. Don't burn it; the rising smoke will afflict any =
skin it comes in contact with. Wear protective clothing, and wash it =
separately (and yourself, of course) immediately after finishing the =
job.
The U.S. Forest Service is experimenting with a substance called Ivy =
Block, an organic clay to be applied to tools and skin for 24-hour =
protection against infection. It's not yet available commercially, but =
should be soon if the tests prove successful.
-Franklin Sides
Franklin Sides is a gardener for MOTHER EARTH NEWS.
Lee Ann
It is not the idea to "bake" but to compost. Composting will get rid of =
any natural poison in less than a year! And once the organisms that can =
do this job are around you might find that your "immunity" towards =
urishiol has improved too since there should be less of it around.
Putting it in a closed plastic bag is a fast way to reduce the volume of =
plant material. The end result is compost.
john
This will not destroy the urushiol in the plants. Don't try to compost =
or burn any poison ivy or poison oak plants. Even baking them in a =
plastic bag for a year won't work. It's not something to experiment =
with. Get rid of it.
Lee Ann
------=_NextPart_000_0640_01C51CFC.08D91D30
Dispose of the plants according to your local regulations. Do not =
compost
the dead plants. Urushiol breaks down too slowly, and chopping the vines =
for the
compost heap increases exposure to the oil.
And from Mother Earth News:
size=3D2>Poison Compost?
size=3D2>On my property there's a large mound of dried brush, about =
a third of
it poison oak. I want to chip all this up and use it in my compost pile. =
Will
the poison oak ruin my compost?
size=3D2>No, but it won't do you a whole lot of =
good.
size=3D2>During the composting process, the poison oak=97including =
the urushiol
oil, the irritating substance present in all parts of the plant=97will =
break down
into its component parts. Thus the finished compost will harm neither =
you nor
your plants (no itchy tomatoes). No one seems to know just how long this =
decomposition will take, however. Poison oak is a woody plant, so it =
should
require lengthy composting=97six months, at least. If you do compost it, =
add
plenty of nitrogenous material (manure, leather meal, etc.) to assure a =
"hot"
pile, which will cook faster.
Meanwhile, that pile will be hot in =
another
sense. Like poison ivy, poison oak becomes more toxic as it dries; it =
loses mass
(water), and the urushiol oil becomes more concentrated. If you're =
allergic to
the weed, it's going to be a long, unpleasant winter as you chip the =
brush and
build and turn the compost. Unless you and yours are allergy-free, I'd =
recommend
against composting.
size=3D2>The standard way to dispose of cleared poison oak is to =
bury it, thus
handling it only once. Don't burn it; the rising smoke will afflict any =
skin it
comes in contact with. Wear protective clothing, and wash it separately =
(and
yourself, of course) immediately after finishing the =
job.
size=3D2>The U.S. Forest Service is experimenting with a substance =
called Ivy
Block, an organic clay to be applied to tools and skin for 24-hour =
protection
against infection. It's not yet available commercially, but should be =
soon if
the tests prove successful.
size=3D2>??Franklin Sides
size=3D2>Franklin Sides is a gardener for MOTHER EARTH =
NEWS.
Lee Ann
--=====================_953320==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 15:40 27-02-2005, Deanne Dale wrote: >Thanks, that's something I could do - as long as there's nothing in the poison oak "remains" after a year that would reproduce the same awful stuff. Most of what I've cut down is very woody so it might need double bagging and mixing with something else. > >Deanne > Woody stuff also disintegrates. Black plastic gets awfully hot in the sun, and foliage is sort of wet; there's a lot of moisture in most plants. So this sets up a very warm composting plant! Carol --=====================_953320==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 15:40 27-02-2005, Deanne Dale wrote:
Thanks, that's something I could do - as long as there's nothing in the poison oak remains after a year that would reproduce the same awful stuff. Most of what I've cut down is very woody so it might need double bagging and mixing with something else.
Deanne
Woody stuff also disintegrates. Black plastic gets awfully hot in the sun, and foliage is sort of wet; there's a lot of moisture in most plants. So this sets up a very warm composting plant!
Carol --=====================_953320==.ALT--
Deanne wrote:
> Good point about power tools. At the moment all I have to work with is =
a
little handsaw and pruning shears,
I should make it clear that I *don't* use a string trimmer or any power =
tool
for clearing large sections of PI. It might happen, though, that some
*other* area that needs trimming has a bit of PI in it. We always wear =
the
goggles when using power tools, but we also know that when trimming some
weedy area we should also have our arms well covered in the likely event
there'll be some PI in there and it will fly around and hit us. As for
legs, well, we always wear heavy jeans and boots when using power =
equipment
and the scythe.
> but next time I pull PO vines down out of the *real* oak tree I'll =
wear a
hat with a sturdy brim and netting over my face or look for a face =
shield.
Maybe beekeeper's headgear.
Mind when you pull vines down that you either close your eyes or avert =
your
face, or both, if you're not wearing some face shield. I wear glasses =
and
I've still gotten debris in my eyes -- not a good thing.
Better yet, don't pull vines of any sort out of trees unless they come
easily. You can damage the thinner branches, break buds, shred leaves,
etc., by yanking on that which is securely attached to the tree. I give =
a
tug and if the vines (PI, JH, briar, grapevines, English ivy) yield, =
fine;
but if they don't I leave them there. As long as you've cut them =
they'll
die in the tree and eventually fall out. Problem with PI branches =
falling
out of the tree, though, is, well, obvious, if you happen to be under =
the
tree when they fall.
When PI clambers up a tree, it sends out its own branches. You might =
not
notice them on a deciduous tree, but it's quite a sight to see leaves =
and
needles mingling in the upper reaches of a pine tree. Assuming you =
can't
pull the PI vine off the tree, you can still cut the PI branches to make =
it
safer to walk near it
> Now I'm wondering what the heck to do with all the PO I've cut down.
In our case it's easy. That, and all small garden debris, goes through =
our
chipper/shredder to keep us supplied with all the ramial woodchips our
little hearts desire. Naturally we don't handle the ramial with bare =
hands.
> Tie it up in plastic bags, label it, and take it to the dump?
How much land did you say you have? Is there some area where you could
throw it?
> I can just imagine it growing new roots and coming back to life like
something out of a horror movie
I don't know if it can or not. Seems that if you threw a lot of it on
moist, loose soil, some of it would re-root.
Actually, the plastic bag idea makes sense. Put it in big black plastic
trash bags (chop or cut the longer vines as needed to make them fit), =
label
them, and set them somewhere out of the way for a year. Taking them to =
the
dump means removing a certain quantity of fertility from your land. =
Letting
the debris compost allows you to put that fertility back in your ground,
somewhere.
This List has discussed composting in plastic bags before, now that I =
think
of it. I'm trying to remember if you should punch a few air holes in =
the
bags so the interior material doesn't get slimy. Well, no doubt, =
someone
else will let us know.
> I'd originally intended to plant barberry
Check if barberry is invasive in your area.
> where the PO is being cut down and now hope the barberry will be able =
to
overwhelm the poison oak roots.
Don't bet on it. They'd probably just grow together.
Pat
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It is not the idea to "bake" but to compost. Composting will get rid of =
any natural poison in less than a year! And once the organisms that can =
do this job are around you might find that your "immunity" towards =
urishiol has improved too since there should be less of it around.
Putting it in a closed plastic bag is a fast way to reduce the volume of =
plant material. The end result is compost.
john
This will not destroy the urushiol in the plants. Don't try to compost =
or burn any poison ivy or poison oak plants. Even baking them in a =
plastic bag for a year won't work. It's not something to experiment =
with. Get rid of it.
Lee Ann
------=_NextPart_000_00AB_01C51D0F.BB713280
Lee Ann, thanks for these excerpts. I intend to add them to my "Poison =
Ivy"
folder.
That said, however, I still think that individuals should assess their =
own
risk when deciding how to dispose of the plants.
> Do not compost the dead plants. Urushiol breaks down too slowly, and
chopping the vines for the compost heap increases exposure to the oil.
What is "too slowly"? "Too slowly" for what? We leave our compost =
piles to
rot for approximately one year, which is longer than the Mother Earth =
News
article says it might take for the PI/PO vines to decompose. Thus, "too
slowly" is not applicable to our timeframe.
As for chopping the vines and increasing one's exposure to the oil, =
Deanne
has already said she's not allergic. It's her friends who are, and =
they're
the reason she's getting rid of the stuff. She's the one handling the
vines, not the friends. Husband and I are allergic if we contact any =
part
of the plant on bare skin or through thin clothing. We know to wear =
thick
clothing and to be sensible when handling the plants. Yes, I cut up a =
lot
of vines during the six weeks I worked on clearing an area approx. 30' x
50', and waded in the hateful stuff. All I got, at the very end of this
task, was a mild reaction in a very small area on both wrists, leading =
me
to conclude that I should have washed my cotton sock/wrist guards once =
or
twice as they probably accumulated a good quantity of the oil during =
this
period.
> Don't burn it; the rising smoke will afflict any skin it comes in =
contact
with.
More serious than that is the fact that breathing in the oil fumes can
produce an internal reaction. I don't know if internal tissues respond
differently to this contact than does skin to topical exposure. =
Deanne's
skin might not be bothered by contact, but she might not be as fortunate =
if
she breathed the stuff. Then there's the matter of her dog (are animals
allergic to urushiol?), and people downwind of the burning pile. =
Burning,
to my mind, is definitely unsafe and irresponsible.
> Wear protective clothing, and wash it separately (and yourself, of =
course)
immediately after finishing the job.
Oh, well, again that depends on one's sensitivity. My jeans and wool
sweater didn't get washed once during that 6-week period. I, however, =
did
shower (in case anyone is wondering....)
Pat
Carol, thanks for the clarification. That should help Deanne a lot in
deciding what to do with her pulled vines.
Pat
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Pat said:
> That said, however, I still think that individuals should assess their =
own
risk when deciding how to dispose of the plants.
Yes, of course each individual should assess his own risk to a certain =
degree. But remember, even those immune to urushiol reactions can lose =
that immunity at any time. The immunity is not a guaranteed lifelong =
thing. I was immune for ten years and a botanist friend warned me to =
beware. I didn't believe him, and I got careless. I lost my immunity and =
paid the piper for my carelessness. It wasn't life-threatening, but it =
sure was darned itchy and uncomfortable for a week or so! 8-)
> What is "too slowly"? "Too slowly" for what? We leave our compost =
piles to
rot for approximately one year, which is longer than the Mother Earth =
News
article says it might take for the PI/PO vines to decompose. Thus, "too
slowly" is not applicable to our timeframe.
The article also discussed the importance of heat in a compost pile. Not =
everyone's compost is hot enough to reduce the urushiol in that year. My =
compost, for example, doesn't get very hot--I don't turn it (after =
having killed two hibernating toads with the pitchfork, I decided to let =
it take it's own sweet time). I have the luxury of space, so have plenty =
of room for composting with several piles over longer periods.
> As for chopping the vines and increasing one's exposure to the oil, =
Deanne
has already said she's not allergic. It's her friends who are, and =
they're
the reason she's getting rid of the stuff.
And I truly hope she and any others can retain immunity forever. But =
what about a chance exposure by others? For example, if a neighbor's dog =
comes onto the property and gets into the stuff, then goes home with the =
oil on its fur, then it's family can come down with a reaction. Or it's =
a windy day and bits take flight on the breeze. I know that's =
hypothetical, but still a possibility that might want to be taken into =
consideration.
> I got, at the very end of this
task, was a mild reaction in a very small area on both wrists, leading =
me
to conclude that I should have washed my cotton sock/wrist guards once =
or
twice as they probably accumulated a good quantity of the oil during =
this
period.
To play it safest, wash the clothes after each round with the PI. I =
pulled a massive amount last summer from my friend's mound garden and =
changed clothes and showered immediately, before I got into the car to =
head home. As soon as I got home, I emptied the bag of exposed clothes =
into the washer and gave it all a good washing. You can pick up the oil =
just from handling the oil-infested clothing.
> More serious than that is the fact that breathing in the oil fumes can
produce an internal reaction.
I wondered why they neglected to mention this in the article. You're =
right, that is more serious than just external contact.
> I don't know if internal tissues respond
differently to this contact than does skin to topical exposure.
I remember reading somewhere that it could be life-threatening by =
swelling your windpipe closed.
> Oh, well, again that depends on one's sensitivity. My jeans and wool
sweater didn't get washed once during that 6-week period. I, however, =
did
shower (in case anyone is wondering....)
I should hope so, at least a few times in those 6 weeks!!!! 8-)))) =
(Couldn't resist that!)
What it boils down to is to use as many precautions as you possibly can. =
I just don't advise composting PI because I personally don't think it's =
worth the risk. Like I said, I have the luxury of space, so when I pull =
it, I can just haul it off into the woods off the beaten track, where =
people don't go, and let it lie.
Lee Ann
------=_NextPart_000_0935_01C51D94.97104B80
--0-1286121594-1109638484=:5483
Even though I haven't reacted to poison oak or ivy *yet* I still want to remove as much of the PO from my property (about 3/4 of an acre, not that big) as possible, just in case. Some day I won't be paying attention and won't be dressed properly and my first allergic reaction will probably strike. So there's that concern, and also the fact that people helping with projects might be allergic. One of the guys putting up the fencing said he was.
Although he didn't help himself out much - working in short sleeved t-shirts and not paying any attention to whether the plants he touched were or weren't poison oak. That I don't understand - I went out as covered up as possible and wore heavy gloves before cutting back PO in the areas where the fence was going up, despite never having had a reaction before.
Thanks, Pat, for clearing up what to do about the vines. I did just pull down the ones that came down without resistance, and then cut all the rest at the base in hopes it would do them in. I was concerned that what I didn't pull down would be able to make up for being separated from its roots by feeding from the oak, but since they're all clearly dying at this point I guess that isn't the case. I hope the oak is taking a nice big sigh of relief!
I'm grateful for all the advice on what to do with the PO after it's cut down or pulled up. I'll definitely bag it all up, and label it clearly, and see what happens in a year. There are a couple spots where it would be out of the way and undisturbed. Maybe also ask the extension people what they advise, and whether there are local regulations about it. I have a longish list of questions for them already!
Deanne
--0-1286121594-1109638484=:5483
--0-1122958420-1109639448=:79031
No no no, that's why I'm on the list - the best way to get a complete picture on any subject is to hear about it from different points of view. I like the idea of poking large holes into a compost pile, too, I don't remember that being mentioned before and for weaklings like myself that sounds easier than turning compost piles.
Deanne
Patricia Ruggiero
Well, at this point I think you and I would have to agree to disagree on the
most prudent precautions, based on our individual experiences with PI. I
imagine poor Deanne is like a spectator at a ping-pong match, reading our
back-and-forth discussion!
Pat
--0-1122958420-1109639448=:79031No no no, that's why I'm on the list - the best way to get a complete picture on any subject is to hear about it from different points of view. I like the idea of poking large holes into a compost pile, too, I don't remember that being mentioned before and for weaklings like myself that sounds easier than turning compost piles. Deanne
Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop@EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:
Well, at this point I think you and I would have to agree to disagree on the
most prudent precautions, based on our individual experiences with PI. I
imagine poor Deanne is like a spectator at a ping-pong match, reading our
back-and-forth discussion!
Pat
--0-1122958420-1109639448=:79031--
Lee Ann wrote:
> The article also discussed the importance of heat in a compost pile. =
Not
everyone's compost is hot enough to reduce the urushiol in that year. My
compost, for example, doesn't get very hot--I don't turn it (after =
having
killed two hibernating toads with the pitchfork, I decided to let it =
take
it's own sweet time). I have the luxury of space, so have plenty of room =
for
composting with several piles over longer periods.<
Husband carefully constructs our compost piles so that they are, indeed, =
hot
for a time; but I'm not certain that the absence of heat warrants not
composting PI. I mentioned that we shred a lot of PI and JH. While we
don't work with the ramial woodchips bare-handed, certainly our bare =
hands
come in contact with this material soon enough. I'm thinking of how I =
use
ramial chips as a feeding mulch around fruit bushes, for example. I =
could
easily be passing by sometime and, with bare hands, tidy the mulch or =
pull a
couple of weeds. The fact that the urushiol isn't completely gone from =
a
cold compost pile or ramial chips doesn't mean all of it is still there =
in
its full strength; I would imagine it decays and dissipates gradually =
such
that it reaches a point where less susceptible individuals can handle
material containing traces of it. At least, that seems to be how it is =
with
Husband and me.
By the way, we don't turn the compost piles, either. After Husband
constructs them, he plunges a post into them to make five holes, approx.
3-4" diameter. They get their air that way.
> For example, if a neighbor's dog comes onto the property and gets into =
the
stuff, then goes home with the oil on its fur, then it's family can come
down with a reaction. Or it's a windy day and bits take flight on the
breeze. I know that's hypothetical, but still a possibility that might =
want
to be taken into consideration.
I doubt that a dog's getting into the cut or shredded vines is any worse
than its rolling on the intact vines you throw into the woods. Besides
which, the cut-up vines are likely to be lying around for much less =
time, if
one is preparing them for a compost pile, whereas those vines in the =
woods
are gonna be there for a long time. And I highly doubt that the wind is
going to carry 6-12" segments of vine very far.
> To play it safest, wash the clothes after each round with the PI. I =
pulled
a massive amount last summer from my friend's mound garden and changed
clothes and showered immediately, before I got into the car to head =
home. As
soon as I got home, I emptied the bag of exposed clothes into the washer =
and
gave it all a good washing. You can pick up the oil just from handling =
the
oil-infested clothing.
I would still insist that it depends on a person's sensitivity. I'm not
going to run the washer for one pair of jeans and a pair of wrist covers
every time I pull PI. That would go against my practice of airing =
clothes
out, waiting for enough clothes to run a full load, and only doing one =
load
on any one day so as not to send excessive quantities of water to the =
septic
tank.
> More serious than that is the fact that breathing in the oil fumes can
produce an internal reaction.
> I wondered why they neglected to mention this in the article.
Yes, that was a curious omission.
> I remember reading somewhere that it could be life-threatening by =
swelling
your windpipe closed.
Yup, I'd say that's significantly worse than getting a skin rash.
> Oh, well, again that depends on one's sensitivity. My jeans and wool
sweater didn't get washed once during that 6-week period. I, however, =
did
shower (in case anyone is wondering....)
> I should hope so, at least a few times in those 6 weeks!!!! 8-))))
(Couldn't resist that!)
Yeah, a few.......Actually, sometimes I think I spent two hours pulling
vines just so I could really, really enjoy that delicious feeling of
relaxing in a hot shower.....
> I have the luxury of space, so when I pull it, I can just haul it off =
into
the woods off the beaten track, where people don't go, and let it lie.
Ah, but that hypothetical neighbor's dog you mentioned just might.
Well, at this point I think you and I would have to agree to disagree on =
the
most prudent precautions, based on our individual experiences with PI. =
I
imagine poor Deanne is like a spectator at a ping-pong match, reading =
our
back-and-forth discussion!
Pat
Pat, I'm the one that composts noxious weeds in black garbage bags. I like slime, because then the weed is dead! If air gets in, the weed will not die, but most likely grow through the garbage bags. I've been there, seen it happen, more than once...
Carol
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But...if it's the neighbor's dog who dumped a big pile of poop on my =
steps up to the back door the other day, then I hope he does get into it =
and contaminate his people who let him wander 2/10 mile from home =
unleashed and unsupervised! (These two dogs of the neighbors up the hill =
dug up a lot of my new plantings in my nice new mound garden last =
summer. After I replanted them, then the Amish neighbor's 2 pet cows got =
loose and took a stroll through the mound. There are advantages and =
disadvantages to rural living! 8-) )
Lee Ann
> I have the luxury of space, so when I pull it, I can just haul it off =
into
the woods off the beaten track, where people don't go, and let it lie.
Ah, but that hypothetical neighbor's dog you mentioned just might.
Well, at this point I think you and I would have to agree to disagree on =
the
most prudent precautions, based on our individual experiences with PI. =
I
imagine poor Deanne is like a spectator at a ping-pong match, reading =
our
back-and-forth discussion!
Pat
------=_NextPart_000_0AB7_01C51DC4.33610900
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You and Pat got me there! I thought of that too, after I hit send.... =
8-)
Lee Ann
If the dog came on the property while the PI was still growing the =
result would be the same as if you let the stuff compost in situ.
j
------=_NextPart_000_0B04_01C51DC7.384FABD0
Lee Ann wrote:
> But...if it's the neighbor's dog who dumped a big pile of poop on my =
steps
up to the back door the other day, then I hope he does get into it and
contaminate his people who let him wander 2/10 mile from home unleashed =
and
unsupervised!
Heh, heh, that did happen with one of the neighbor's dogs. He came =
around
while I was wading in the PI and JH and wandered and sniffed all through =
it.
Well, now, he's a nice doggie and the neighbors aren't a bad sort, but =
still
I wish they'd control doggie's roaming. I happen to know everyone in =
the
family is allergic to PI. And golly gee, I would have told them about
doggie being in the PI that afternoon but, gosh darn, they weren't =
home....
> (These two dogs of the neighbors up the hill dug up a lot of my new
plantings in my nice new mound garden last summer. After I replanted =
them,
then the Amish neighbor's 2 pet cows got loose and took a stroll through =
the
mound. There are advantages and disadvantages to rural living! 8-)
That has to be incredibly frustrating. We have our problems here with =
stray
dogs, no leash laws, and barking dogs but so far nothing as disgusting =
as
poop on the steps or their digging up the beds (peeing on the bushes is =
bad
enough).
Where exactly are you in Erie? Obviously not in town....Howard said he
doesn't recognize your last name; is it a common name there? And he
remembers the Markham music store that you mentioned. As for Cambridge
Springs, we stay at the Riverside Hotel when we visit his family.
Pat
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I live 8 miles east of Cambridge Springs and the Riverside Inn. Next =
time you're in town, let me know and maybe we can meet up for a nature =
walk or something. We're way out in the boondocks, farm country.
We moved here from Pittsburgh in 1974, so have no other relatives in =
northwest Pennsylvania.
Lee Ann
Where exactly are you in Erie? Obviously not in town....Howard said he
doesn't recognize your last name; is it a common name there? And he
remembers the Markham music store that you mentioned. As for Cambridge
Springs, we stay at the Riverside Hotel when we visit his family.
Pat
------=_NextPart_000_0B40_01C51DD7.04945010
Deanne wrote:
> I was concerned that what I didn't pull down would be able to make up =
for
being separated from its roots by feeding from the oak, but since =
they're
all clearly dying at this point I guess that isn't the case. I hope =
the
oak is taking a nice big sigh of relief!
PI and PO are natives and I don't think they destroy the trees which =
they
use to climb up to the light. But I'm not really certain about this. =
What
I see in our yard is that PI doesn't flare out when it reaches the top =
of a
tree and then completely obliterate the light, ultimately killing its =
host
as JH does. Also, PI doesn't seem to generate the huge quantity of =
biomass
that English ivy does, the latter then becoming destructive to its
supporting tree. It seems to me that PI kno
