Somebody said cinnamon keeps ants away....or does it kill them?
We have hill after hill of fire ants popping up all summer around our
in-ground pool. They bite and leave welts. I usually take a few kettles of
boiling water to them. Then they pop up elsewhere.
(1) Would adding cinnamon to the boiling water help?
(2) Would a spray of cinnamon-water around the pool keep the buggers away?
How much cinnamon does it take?
Marcia T.
Frank Tomeo wrote:
Sorry, I haven't been able to keep up daily, but here's the information you
requested.
Use 4 oz of Kleen Kill and 4 oz of pure castile soap per gallon of water. Two
to four gallons may be necessary depending on the sixe of the ant colony.
Beneficial nematodes can also be used against fire ants, and a friend of mine
is working on a bacteria that will kill fire ants, which should be available
within a few weeks. I would not recommend mixing enzymes with nematodes or
bacteria. Each of these methods are exclusive of each other. I'm not sure
which of the three sould work best. In my experience, customers speak highly
of both the nematodes and the Kleen Kill/Castile soap blend.
Cheers,
Eric W. Acosta - Director
Biocontrol Network
Bio-rational Alternatives for a Small Planet
***********************************************
America Online: ebugs@aol.com Internet: bionet@usit.net
URL http://www.usit.net/BICONET
***********************************************
Does anyone know of a natural way to get fire ants out of a garden?
They don't seem to be bothering my plants, but are so bad I can't weed
without being stung by them.
Leigh Kelley
Hi Kelly,
By get out of your garden do you mean.. alive or dead??
Diatomaceous Earth will get rid of them by killing them. I don't know of
the live way.
Steve
siric@caribsurf.com
orgsol@hotmail.com
Date: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 12:08 AM
Subject: Fire Ants
In a message dated 12/3/97 3:38:00 PM, you wrote:
Leigh,
Depending on what you mean by "out of a garden", there are a number of
things that can be done about fire ants. One is diatomaceous earth. DE can
serve as somewhat of a barrier against ants, slugs and other crawling
insects. I've heard of some people using Teflon spray on their shoes or boots
to keep ants from crawling up them. Of course, this may not help you much
if you're on your hands and knees in the garden. I typically shy away from
Pyrethrum sprays until there's no other alternative, but I do use a product
called Kleen Kill Enzyme Cleaner whenever I'm confronted with a bug
situation where I can't pick it up by hand, or there are simply too many to
deal with, such as may be the case with ants. Actually, the only bugs I've had
a problem with this year were aphids and spider mites, both of which I treated
with occassional applications of diluted Kleen Kill.
Since I've applied DE around my house almost two years ago, I don't think
we've
seen an ant anywhere.
I'll be more than happy to tell you more about Kleen Kill if you're
interested.
Cheers,
Eric W. Acosta - Director
Biocontrol Network
Bio-rational Alternatives for an Ever Shrinking Planet
***********************************************
America Online: ebugs@aol.com Internet: bionet@usit.net
URL http://www.usit.net/BICONET
***********************************************
Keith, I'm glad you wrote this, because I've got ant problems and I
wasn't
Trudy,
Fire ants took over my small raised garden as well as my compost pile
and I have tried every natural thing I could think of or hear about.
I live in Florida and the idea of getting them off my property is
useless, I just want them out of my garden.
Well, I have finally found something that makes them move their home.
I put used coffee grounds on top of the mound and pour cold water over
them to make them soak in. The ants move from that spot and don't come
back.
Leigh
I really need to write up the Fire Ant FAQ - been meaning to, just haven't
gotten around to it. Anyway, herewith the benefit of my years of
experience fighting these little demons from Hell:
Q: Are fire ants difficult to kill?
A: No. Fire ants are actually very easy to kill, individually. The
problem is killing the entire nest. To eradicate a mound, you must kill
the queen. Otherwise, one of three things will happen: 1) The nest
won't even notice your feeble attempts to destroy it 2) The nest will
relocate to another area of your yard, making you think you've killed it -
but it's really only set up shop elsewhere 3) The nest will be stressed,
but not destroyed, and will respond by producing additional queens and
dividing, resulting in more nests.
Q: So, how do I kill the entire nest?
A: There are many chemical solutions. Many fire ant poisons must be
mixed with water and poured into the nest. These are very effective, if
used properly. The problem is that most people don't use enough water to
completely flood the mound. Products like Amdro, which are variants on
the theme of growth inhibitors, are very effective, but take up to 2 weeks
to show results. Orthene is especially effective - it is sprinkled on the
mound dry, and works almost overnight.
Q: I don't like pesticides - what else can I do?
A: Boiling water is espoused by many. Just like the poisons that are
mixed with water, I would think the quantity is the key. Remember that
fire ant mounds have been found to extend as much as 15 feet underground
(although 1-2 feet is more typical), and you can see the potential
difficulty. You can try solarizing the mound, if it's mid-summer:
thoroughly wet the mound, then cover it with clear plastic firmly
anchored on all sides. The sun will quickly super-heat the area, and
essentially steam-clean the nest. Best results come if you wet and cover
the nest as early in the day as possible, on as hot and sunny a day as
possible - otherwise, the ants may simply pack up and move.
Q: I've heard you can mix two nests and they will destroy each other.
A: Theoretically, this could work. In practice, there are a few
problems. First, you can rarely get one entire nest moved to dump on
another nest. Even if you do, one nest will probably overwhelm the other,
which would still eliminate one nest. And finally, one could debate the
wisdom of walking around with a shovelful of fire ant nest - they are
amazingly fast when it comes to climbing up shovel handles. It does,
however, make for cheap entertainment on a slow day.
Q: What about grits/cornmeal/any swelly-belly thing?
A: Here's the theory: You sprinkle grits or cornmeal or whatever on the
mound. The worker ants carry the stuff down and the other ants all feast
out on the food provided by us devious, large-brained humans; they then
drink water, which causes the grits/cornmeal/swelly thing to swell,
causing their tiny ant stomachs to explode, spreading tiny little internal
ant organs all over the nest. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work. The
ants love this particular tactic, because it means they don't have to go
wandering all over your yard looking for food. The "results" that Aunt
Mamie or Cousin Bob told you about come from relocation of the nest due to
folks constantly pouring grits/cornmeal/swelly stuff all over the mound.
Q: I really, really hate fire ants. What's the best solution?
A: To date, fire ants have not been found north of a line extending from
north-central Virginia, across Kentucky and Missouri and ending at the
Front Range of the Rockies in Colorado. Move north of that line. You may
have to deal with other, native ants, but not fire ants.
Harry Boswell hboswell@netdoor.com
USDA Zone 8 (Mississippi USA)
Home Page: http://www2.netdoor.com/~hboswell
Good morning Harry,
Would any of this apply to ordinary ants?
Mary in England
Harry,
That was a great post on Fire Ant Control. Fortunately we don't have a
problem with fire ants in Maryland, unless someone buys are large potted
plant from the south in which the ants have nested. Had this happen two
summers ago in a local shopping mall. Caused quite panic till they found
out what was going on.
Also enjoyed your comments on the grits control method. It's always interested
me how so many home remedies which really don't work, turn into gospel.
Sometimes when you suggest the control, such as grits for fire ants or
juicy fruit gum for moles, doesn't work, people get rather hostile.
Of course I grew up in a house full of medical home remedies. Once when I
was choking on a small toy truck lodged in my throat, my aunt quickly went
to the kitchen to get a piece of bread to stick in my mouth. Fortunately, my
father just wacked me hard on the back and out popped the toy. Good thing
they didn't give me a mouthful of grits. :)
Bob (peas are planted) Stewart
Southern Maryland (USDA Zone 7)
rs72@umail.umd.edu
....> 3.
> Does anyone know how to get rid of Fire Ants? They don't look
> threatening, but they really sting when they bite and they build
> mounds all over the yard. My husband wants to use up the Amdro that
> was left behind by the chemical-happy former home owners. Any ideas?
I don't have fire ants where I live but there were a couple of
interesting-looking posts about them on the gardens list recently.
The March/April issue of The American Gardener has an article claiming
the nematode Steinernema feltiae "has successfully eliminated colonies
of fire ants" in the South.
Also, someone posted that a product called, "Queen Smasher" claimed to
be an environmentally friendly control:
http://www.queensmasher.com 1 877 FIREANT (toll free)
I've seen no feedback about either solution or where one might purchase
the nematodes. Perhaps someone on the else on list might know a little
more.
---
Peggy Enes (peggy@unicom.net) Zone 5/6
donovan wrote:
> I live in the Dallas area (60 miles northeast). I use a liquid
> pyrethrum/rotenone for fire ants. About 1 tbsp per gallon of water as a
> drench. Works almost instantly and, for me, has worked everytime.
I live 50 miles due east of Dallas and the fire ants are terrible.
There are no longer any birds left that nest on the ground. The fire
ants have been know to kill new born calves here. I've got permanent
bite marks on my ankles from being stung so many times.
When I was young and living in this area (40 years ago) peas and beans
were a major crop. Now, they are only grown in small areas because the
fire ants love them and it is almost lethal to try to go in to a field
and pick the peas and beans with the hordes of fire ants stinging you
every time you pick a bean.
Fire ants are the worst pest I've ever seen and have done untold damage
to the environment. As an earlier post said, the USDA is terrified
about fire ants getting in to southern California. If they do, the
vegetable fields of California will become a thing of the past because
the ants will make them unworkable.
I have tried everything I can think of on the fire ants around here.
Nothing I've tried is effective. When you say you're using
pyrethrum/rotenone for fire ants at the rate of 1 tbsp per gallon of
water as a drench, how many gallons are you applying to each mound? If
it works, I'll sure give it a try, but are you sure that the ants aren't
just moving the entrance to nest which is what they do if you spray the
mound with water or otherwise disturb it.
By the way, I've tried the instant grits: It Don't Work! 8-)
Loy
Finally !! the proportions we need for all "recipes" !! THANK YOU !!
From: donovan
Subject: Re: fire ants
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:34:52 -0700
From: "Dr. Stephen Martin"
The USDA is absolutely
terrifed of fire ants. Rumor has it that they are moving along the south
(they like warm weather) into California and the Pacific Northwest. When
the weather patterns change, insect migration patterns change also. For
people not familiar with fire ants, they can swarm and kill
livestock--not to mention humans. They have a powerful venom, and land
that contains fire ant colonies is worthless.
The USDA has been hysterical about fire ants for many decades. I do not
want to discount the very real annoyance that they present (there aren't
any where I am, but I believe you all) but the USDA's views are quite out
of proportion. The USDA declared war on them some time ago and a hell of a
lot of unnessessary chemicals have been dumped on American soil because of
it. Naturally, the chemical controls don't even work in the long term.
To learn more about the USDA and its failed control of fire ants, read
Silent Spring or Since Silent Spring. Amazing info in there. I'm afraid I
don't know (remember) more details myself.
Cyndi
_______________________________________________________________________________
Oakland, California Zone 9 USDA; Zone 16 Sunset Western Garden Guide
Disabled, chemically sensitive, wheelchair user Organic Gardening only
_______________________________________________________________________________
"There's nothing wrong with me. Maybe there's Cyndi Norman
something wrong with the universe." (ST:TNG) cyndi@consultclarity.com
http://www.consultclarity.com
_________________________ Owner of the Immune Lists http://www.best.com/~immune
I've also heard about the orange oil technique, but what I've been telling
people
about is pre-formed enzymes and peppermint oil soap. The pre-formed enzyme
blend that I have consists of protease, lipase, amylase and cellulase enzymes
in a fremented molasses base. The enzyme concentrate can be diluted one ounce
concentrate per gallon of water and poured slowly into the ant nest. Large
nests may require 2 gallons. The action of the protease enzymes is similar to
what Dr. Martin described of chitinase enzymes. If I'm not mistaken, chitin
is constructed
from proteins. Peppermint oil soap added to the mix seems to help.
I also have the Rotenone/Pyrethrin Liquid concentrate that Jack mentioned. I
know for a fact it works and the price is very accessible. For some reason, I
personally prefer to use the enzymes when I go after ants, since I believe
after the ants are gone, the enzymes that remain are beneficial to the soil.
All the best,
Eric W. Acosta - Director
Biocontrol Network
Bio-rational Alternatives for an Ever Shrinking Planet
***********************************************
URL http://www.biconet.com
America Online: ebugs@aol.com
***********************************************
I don't know about the orange oil, really, but you could start with a
Tbs/gal and see how that works. If it doesn't, just up the dose. However,
there was just a piece in HortIdeas that suggested that cinnamon or
cinnamon oil were very effective in driving ants away. If you have some
powdered cinnamon in the house, you could try sprinkling some on a few of
the mounds to see which works best.
Naturally, you absolutely must let us know what happens.
Libby
libby@igc.apc.org Libby J. Goldstein phone & fax: 215-465-8878
Philadelphia USDA zone 7A Sunset zone 32
My garden must be n-dimensional if it's out here in cyberspace.
Be glad, Cyndi, that they haven't reached California yet. They're coming!
We had a citrus grove down in south Texas near the Rio Grande. After the
freezes in the '80s that killed off the groves, we allowed our acreage to
return to nature. That was a big mistake! Fire ants came in and we
didn't notice until about 5 acres of our 10 were nothing but mounds.
Here, in north Texas, I've got fire ants on my recently purchased property
of 1-1/2 acres. Since it's been so dry, they migrate to those areas that
are damp from my irrigation. Unfortunately, since I mow (make mulch, that
is) with the blade set at its highest setting, the grass hides small
mounds. I'm constantly getting stung by the critters because I stand on
or near one of their new, small mounds while harvesting vegetables. I've
suffered too many stings to have any sympathy for them. What I'm really
afraid of is that after enough stings, I might become allergic to them.
That would be serious indeed with my congestive heart failure condition.
I don't think all the chemical "killers" are effective more than a few
days. That's why I've invested in an expensive gallon of orange oil,
since it is supposed to kill them when mixed with manure compost tea and
molasses. I just need to learn how much to put in a gallon of tea drench
to do the job.
Barbara zone 7/8 southwest of Fort Worth
Eric Acosta wrote:
> I've also heard about the orange oil technique, but what I've been telling
> people about is pre-formed enzymes and peppermint oil soap. The pre-formed
> enzyme blend that I have consists of protease, lipase, amylase and cellulase
> enzymes in a fremented molasses base. The enzyme concentrate can be diluted
> one ounce concentrate per gallon of water and poured slowly into the ant
nest.
> Large nests may require 2 gallons. The action of the protease enzymes is
similar
> to what Dr. Martin described of chitinase enzymes. If I'm not mistaken,
chitin
> is constructed from proteins. Peppermint oil soap added to the mix seems to
> help.
CORRECTION: For ants: four ounces Kleen Kill concentrate per gallon of water
While I was discussing this, I failed to mention entomopathogenic nematodes as
an ant controlling tool. These beneficial insect parasitic nematodes are one
of the ant's natural enemies. Nematodes can be mixed with water and applied
directly to ant mounds. They can also be broadcast over a wide area. A
combination of both may cause the local ant population to diminish
significantly as they will no doubt prefer to dwell elsewhere. Read about
nematodes at http://www.biconet.com/BO3.html
Regards,
Eric W. Acosta
Biocontrol Network
Email ebugs@aol.com
URL http://www.biconet.com
Hi Loy,
One gal. water/mound should be sufficient unless it is awfully big. I can't
honestly say that the colonies don't move, although I've never noticed that
happening in greenhouse or yard. I will guarantee to you that any ant that
gets wet will die.
Jack
> I also have the Rotenone/Pyrethrin Liquid concentrate that Jack mentioned.
I
> know for a fact it works and the price is very accessible. For some reason,
I
> personally prefer to use the enzymes when I go after ants, since I believe
> after the ants are gone, the enzymes that remain are beneficial to the
soil.
I haven't used KleenKill, Eric, but I can appreciate your preference for it.
Just so people know, pyrethrum breaks down very quickly in sunlight or soil,
so damage to beneficials (even micro-organisms I suspect) would be minimal.
Rotenone also breaks down quickly, but it is toxic to fish, so be careful
with it around ponds.
Jack
Keith: I don't know if your Hong Kong fire ants are the same species as
ours, which were unintentionally imported from South America. They sound
the same: small, make small or large mounds, vicious, and completely
unreasonable. It sounds like your killing method of fermented citrus
peels is ahead of our general knowledge. Our organic gardening guru on
the radio has advocated using orange oil (from processed orange peels).
My problem is that after buying an expensive gallon of the stuff, I don't
know how much to add to a gallon of drench. I want to kill but don't want
to waste an expensive ingredient. According to the guru's advice, it is
to be added to manure compost tea mixed with molasses for a long-lasting
effect.
Barbara USDA zone 7/8 southwest of Fort Worth, Texas
Sun, 16 Aug 1998 "Barbara J. Davis" wrote:
I don't know how strong your orange oil is, but you can try 1 ounce per gallon
of water and build up to about 4 ounces per gallon of water. I'm fairly sure
somewhere in that range should do it.
BTW, for our Hong Kong OGL'er, grits are a fine granular meal made from
white corn, very similar in preparation to something called Cream of Wheat
in America. It appears to be an "American" thing, and is quite popular in the
South. Grits are even relatively unknown in parts of the U.S., but they are
definitely well known and loved in the South.
Cheers,
Eric W. Acosta - Director
Biocontrol Network
Bio-rational Alternatives for an Ever Shrinking Planet
***********************************************
America Online: ebugs@aol.com Internet: bionet@usit.net
URL http://www.biconet.com
***********************************************
Hi there
Vera wrote:
Apparently when the ants drink, the grits swell up and ants die.
Works for us.
Vera
Becoming more self-sufficient and God-dependent.>
Fire ants I know about, or at least the local variety - small, vicious,
completely unreasonable, and lots of back-up! They don't make mounds here
but that doesn't stop them making life impossible. I know you can kill them
with fermented citrus peels, though they always come back of course. But
what exactly are instant grits?
Keith Addison
Lantau Island
Hong Kong
Libby J. Goldstein wrote:
***However,
> there was just a piece in HortIdeas that suggested that cinnamon or
> cinnamon oil were very effective in driving ants away.
I've used this. They go away for a while, but they come
back to the same mound.
Karen Hohne
Say, Keith, that sounds like just the thing! Good for what ails us! I
think I'd like putu as well as I like cooked grits---ugh.
Barbara (not exactly a southern woman, just a transplanted one)
zone 7/8 southwest of Fort Worth
Keith wrote:
> Well, I'll own up - the fermented peels idea comes from Texas! It was
You bet. The URL is usually at the tag of every email I send out.
The home page is www.biconet.com
We have about a dozen sections, mostly relating to pest control. What
you might want to try is any kind of fine granular meal that the ants you
have may take as food. It can even be rice meal, if they'll eat it. Find out
what they like, and then we can talk about what to do next.
All the best,
Eric W. Acosta - Director
Biocontrol Network
Bio-rational Alternatives for an Ever Shrinking Planet
***********************************************
URL http://www.biconet.com
America Online: ebugs@aol.com
***********************************************
Barbara J. Davis wrote:
the same: small, make small or large mounds, vicious, and completely
unreasonable. It sounds like your killing method of fermented citrus
peels is ahead of our general knowledge.
Well, I'll own up - the fermented peels idea comes from Texas! It was
apparently discovered by a juice factory when a pile of peels on top of a
fire ant nest got wet, went sour, and wiped out all the ants. Following
this discussion, I'll buy some orange juice tomorrow and offer the little
monsters a drink, see if that kills them.
The guru's recipe sounds interesting. Try just a bit, see if it works, if
not add a bit more and so on - or is there a good reason for getting it
right first time?
Your Southern grits sounds like what South African blacks call "putu", good
stuff. Should I try orange-peel-flavoured putu with cinnamon topping??
All best
Keith Addison
Lantau Island
Hong Kong
Eric Acosta wrote:
in America. It appears to be an "American" thing, and is quite popular in the
South. Grits are even relatively unknown in parts of the U.S., but they are
definitely well known and loved in the South.
Thanks, Eric. Cream of Wheat you can buy in the supermarket here (and I
sometimes had it for breakfast in Cape Town when I was a boy!). I'll give
cornflour a try (and report the results). I'll also try Dr. Stephen
Martin's bug juice, very interesting. In fact I'll try anything! - except
the spraycan of Doom my dear old Chinese neighbour offered me.
Eric - does the Biocontrol Network, Bio-rational Alternatives for an Ever
Shrinking Planet, have a Website?
All best
Keith Addison
Lantau Island
Hong Kong
> I did see some pictures of badly bitten people - the ants
> are equiped with formic acid and it is a defense -
FWIW, all ants have formic acid. And on a positive note (yes, there really
is one where these miserable things are concerned) - they're voracious
consumers of fleas and ticks. Texas A&M did a study on this about 8 years
ago but I couldn't find a link to it online.
I maintain a mound in an out-of-the-way place in my yard for just this
purpose and they really do the job. Any stragglers from that mound are
Orthene/Amdro fodder.
Cynthia
Zone 8a
http://www.metronet.com/~cyn
**************************************
http://www.metronet.com/~cyn in north central Texas
Betta Books and Links
http://www.metronet.com/~cyn/bettas.htm
Fish & Aquarium List Members Page
http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/6635
Fish & Aquarium list archives
http://www.listserv.emory.edu/archives/aquarium.html
Aquatic Plants Digest archives
http://www.actwin.com/fish/aquatic-plants/index.cgi
eBay Users discussion list
http://EbayUsers.listbot.com
I don't know if it was coincidence or not,but I've had a fire ant hill close
to my garden area in a community garden, and after being bitten horrifically
last week, I dusted it with a mix of DE and cinnamon (3T of the latter to a
cup of the former) which I read in an old OG mag as a remedy for some other
kind of ant. To my great surprise, the ants are now gone. I hope they stay
gone!
Peg Daniels
In a message dated 99-07-25 19:16:02 EDT, you write:
<< DE and cinnamon >>
Peg,
Would that be Diatomaceous earth and cinnamon? I'm such an organic greenhorn.
(Dodo eggs and cinnamon? Nah, they'd be too hard to find.)
(Differential equations and cinnamon? They'd stump most ants, I'm sure. But
would they make the ants leave?)
(Deliberate errors and cinnamon? This can result in firings, but may have no
effect on fire ants.
(Dionysian Eros and cinnamon? Oops, this is a family e-mail loop.)
(Danish Existentialism and cinnamon? Kierkegaard anyone? - Fire angst?)
(Dead ends and cinnamon? If all the ants' tunnels became dead ends...)
(Degas epigrams and cinnamon? Many suffered from the tongue of "Le terrible
Monsieur Degas!")
(Duke of Earl and cinnamon? Gotta stop!)
Steve
Date sent: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:28:43 EDT
Send reply to: Organic Gardening Discussion List
From: Steve Emery
Subject: Re: fire ants
Originally to: Naykki2@aol.com
To: OGL@lsv.uky.edu
> Steve
ROFL!! Fire Angst? Where can I subscribe to your newsletter???
Trevor.
Steve.... STOP! my stomach aches from laughing :) Existentialist
gardening... that's a concept!
greenhorn.
For those of you fighting fire ants, here's potential help - from WindStar
Wildlife Institute
a copywrited article in their current newsletter:
TEXAS TECH DEVELOPS FUNGUS BAIT TOXIC TO FIRE ANTS
Researchers at Texas Tech University are proving a fungus to be
fatal to fire ants around the state...
The red fire ants have a nasty sting and their control costs Texas
cities over half a billion dollars annually.
Now, entomologists in the plant and soil science department at
Texas Tech say their deadly fungal bait has been extremely
effective in killing fire ants in the Texarkana area as well as at
other field test sites.
Texas Tech scientists began working on a biological control for fire
ants 10 to 12 years ago, said Harlan Thorvilson, Ph.D., professor of
entomology.
The project isolated a common soil fungus that attacks only insects.
To see if the fungus bait formulation was responsible for killing
ants, Texas Tech scientists genetically altered the fungus to include
an enzyme that indicated the presence of the fungus in dead ants.
"We then found a way to encapsulate the vegetative material in
the fungus, called mycelia, into a pellet. We were able to dry
down the pellet, or dehydrate it, so that they're like Grape Nuts,
then store it," said Thorvilson.
"The fungus reactivates by rehydrating it with moisture, it starts to
grow nicely, starts to produce spores, and the spores are deadly to
the fire ants.
The general idea of the fungus is to broadcast it over a field
where there are many colonies. When the ants go to investigate
for food, they find these pellets. They are attracted to the pellets,
pick them up and deliver them to their colony. In the moist
underground of the colony, the pellets rehydrate, produce spores
and kill off the ants," Thorvilson said.
He anticipates it will be another two years before the fungal bait is
ready for sale in stores. --ENS
**********
TELL YOUR FRIENDS We depend on word-of-mouth to spread
the word about this newsletter. If you enjoy reading it, please
tell a friend or colleague about it. Anyone can sign up for a free
subscription on our web site. Articles in this newsletter may be
forwarded (as long as no fee is charged to recipients), but may
NOT be posted on the Internet without prior permission of the
editor/authors. Please give credit to the individual author or
publication when using any portion of this newsletter.
Copyright 2000 All rights reserved
WindStar Wildlife Institute
FOR INFORMATION ON HOW YOU CAN JOIN
WindStar Wildlife InstituteSM, or give a gift membership, visit us
on our web site at:
http://www.windstar.org/wildlife/member.htm
That's very interesting. The California Dept. of Agriculture is so thorough
in screening out unwanted insects from individuals, I'm amazed they let
something like that get past them. I am glad to learn that APHIS was hot
on the job. I don't know whether they're responsible, but I'm grateful for
whoever is keeping the Asian long-horned beetles and plum pox
confined. Margaret L
In a message dated 11/09/2000 6:44:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jwintermute@EROLS.COM writes:
Hi Janet,
I'm in northern CA, Sacramento area. Thanks for the information. Is there an
arrival time for our vicinity once the pest has moved in down south?? Is it
just a matter of time??
Can you comment on whether or not D.E. works on fire ants? If not, what does??
And, once again, I'm thinking my original post to OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU did not
make it to list since I didn't get it. --Soleil
I don't know about N. California, but I first met the infamous fire ant when
I moved to Florida in the late '80s. Now they followed me up to Georgia.
You can't miss the evidence - they create a mound that can be a foot high
and several feet in diameter. They are EXCEPTIONALLY aggressive, even
though tiny, and the bite from one is almost like a honeybee sting (hence
the name 'fire').
They are almost impossible to kill. DE has no effect. While primarily meat
eaters, they will also eat vegetation (I think for the water content -
that's where my potatoes went). I've tried boiling them out, digging them
up, pouring urine on them (that softens their chitenous shell). The best
you can hope for is to make them move into your neighbor's yard.
The only thing that is 90% effective (I hate to say) is to bait them with
Amdro. Not organic, but effective. However, if you have pets in your yard,
I would sincerely worry about them getting into the bait. It smells so bad,
dogs would be attracted to it.
They are primarily a warm weather critter, but appear to be adapting to life
in the US. As they march northward, nobody will be immune. I'd sooner
killer bees than fire ants!
There is research being done at Texas A&M about them (I used to have a URL,
but lost it). A friend in Houston has recommended Oil of Orange that seems
to discourage them - but I haven't tried that yet.
Walker
home
everywhere
Click for Marietta, Georgia Forecast
Hi Janet,
I'm in northern CA, Sacramento area. Thanks for the information. Is there an
arrival time for our vicinity once the pest has moved in down south?? Is it
just a matter of time??
Can you comment on whether or not D.E. works on fire ants? If not, what
does??
And, once again, I'm thinking my original post to OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU did not
make it to list since I didn't get it. --Soleil
Dear Walker
....del...
> that's where my potatoes went). I've tried boiling them out, digging them
> up, pouring urine on them (that softens their chitenous shell).
Would it be the urea, as an ammonia precursor that does this? If so, then
what about pouring "aqua ammonia" on the ant hills?
(Free aqua ammonia was readily available from Engineering Offices, using
Ozalid Copy machines for making prints from tracings. It is less available
now that many Engineering Offices have switched over to electronic print
systems.)
Although not organic, you would have no worry about killing pets.
Kevin Chisholm
Margaret said,
> That's very interesting. The California Dept. of Agriculture is so thorough
> in screening out unwanted insects from individuals, I'm amazed they let
> something like that get past them. I am glad to learn that APHIS was hot
> on the job.
We definitely worked *with* CDFA on the problem. You are right: they're
extremely vigilant because of the horrendous taxpayer expense that would be
entailed if these pests (fire ants, Medflies, et al.) got into the San
Fernando Valley fruit-growing regions.
We're also working with them on the glassy-winged sharpshooter, an insect
vector for a bad grape disease that could blitz Napa out of commission.
> I don't know whether they're responsible, but I'm grateful for
> whoever is keeping the Asian long-horned beetles and plum pox
> confined.
Thanks, again. ALB and plum pox are also APHIS targets.
BTW, if any of you doubt the power of the Internet, you might be interested
to learn that APHIS found out about the existence of ALB in Chicago because
a guy who had just delivered a pickuptruckful of cut firewood saw one on
his rear-view mirror. He ran into his apartment on the Near North Side,
fired up a search engine, and typed in "black and white beetle." That took
him directly to APHIS' factsheet on ALB and he called us immediately.
--J
In a message dated 11/10/2000 11:30:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jorna@MOBILIXNET.DK writes:
> We don't see our own posts on the OGL list, Soleil.
> Carol
Thanks Carol. Feelin Foolish --Soleil
We don't see our own posts on the OGL list, Soleil.
Carol
Hi y'all,
Thanks to all of you for the suggestions. I think I will go with the
Biconet suggestion. It sounds healthiest.
Kelly
I am planning my first garden and am VERY excited about =
it...(unfortunately nobody I know is and they are SICK of hearing me =
yack about my seedlings, etc....). Anyway, last week, I had a neighbor =
till up the area I wanted. I was out there this morning evening it out =
and raking the dead grass out and oopps....too bad for me, before I =
noticed it, I was bitten? stung? by a couple of fire ants.
Well these guys have GOT to go, right? Or do I need to find a new =
locatiion for my garden? Is there any poison safe to use in a garden, =
don't really want to though as I was going to go the organic route?
Thanks for helping a newbie..
Karen G in AL
Okay, first try pouring boiling water into the center of the nest. Wait a bit, if that didn't work
pour a quart of vinegar on them, if that doesn't work you will have to go to a commercial fire ant
"poison" and that will at least make them move. Most of the commercial fire ant killers today are
not really poisonous to the soil. Read the bag carefully prior to purchase. I use one from Kmart on
the fire ants around here and it gets them moving and hasn't affected the soil so far. Be aware
you're only going to kill a few of them but that will often help them make up their minds to move
next door.
If you have a reaction to fire ant bites any antihistimine will help.
George
skraeling wrote:
I should have read your post before replying. You named all the old standard "killers." Once you've
been bitten by fire ants you'll always remember it. I have permanent scars on my ankles from those
rascals. As a diabetic I don't heal well from them.
George
Annetta Green wrote:
Karen,
Fire Ants hate for it to rain when they are not ready for it. Try putting
the sprinkler on at odd times - that will chase them away, course it may
take a while. You may also want to try pouring boiling water over the nest
if it is contained enough. Vinegar will also chase them away, but this may
also stunt the seedlings for a short while. Amdro around the mound will do
wonders, then you only have to avoid planting within that circle. But, give
it a chance to work before digging. The underground part of the nest can go
pretty far too.
One other thing, are you sure they are really fire ants (I know stupid
question). It seems that an awful lot of people think all biting ants are
fire ants, when they are just normal southern style ants. If they don't
build more than a small a mound above the ground they may not be fire ants.
Fire ants also have this habit of biting in unison. As in I put the bottom
of my ladder into a mound that was hidden under a bush. They crawled up the
ladder and onto me. I got bit in several places all at the exact same time,
not one random biter here and there. It was almost as if they communicated
by mental telepathy. Another thing, fire ants just don't give up. They
will spread for quite a few feet to get to a potential victim/nest invader.
They don't even come off under water. Normal southern ants only spread out
a few inches, then go back to rebuild the nest.
The bites are different too. Fire ants feel like cigarette burns that cause
a blister on the skin within a few hours. Southern ants itch like the devil
and may cause a smaller blister that may be filled with a whitish pussiness.
Sorry to go on about it, but I got into the ants myself. Lovely feeling.
Anne in FL
zone 9b, sunset 26
I am planning my first garden and am VERY excited about it...(unfortunately
nobody I know is and they are SICK of hearing me yack about my seedlings,
etc....). Anyway, last week, I had a neighbor till up the area I wanted. I
was out there this morning evening it out and raking the dead grass out and
oopps....too bad for me, before I noticed it, I was bitten? stung? by a
couple of fire ants.
Well these guys have GOT to go, right? Or do I need to find a new locatiion
for my garden? Is there any poison safe to use in a garden, don't really
want to though as I was going to go the organic route?
Thanks for helping a newbie..
Karen G in AL
Hi Karen, and welcome to Gardens! The best info I know of about
coping with fire ants is found here: http://fireant.tamu.edu/ I
garden just outside Houston and have learned to live with the little
monsters. I never use poisoned bait in my garden or anywhere else for
that matter. The thing that's worked best for us is to leave the out
of the way mounds alone as they will stay put if they can, and will
work to keep other colonies from moving in. If you have established
mounds in places you can't tolerate them, use a hoe or shovel or
something and really stir them up once or twice a day (carefully!)
and they'll pick up and move after a few days. Hope this helps.
Therese
Beautiful East Texas, zone 8b
There is a link for Alabama with a contact address at:
http://www.ag.auburn.edu/dept/ent/FireAnts/fireant.html
I know that in Virginia there is still hope of eradication (because we are
apparently at limits of the ants survival climate-wise), and aggressive
efforts are being made to identify and destroy all colonies. If there are
parts of Alabama where that might also be the case, I'd make an effort to
find out what they recommend so you can be part of whatever concerted effort
they may have underway.
Debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: Gardens & Gardening [mailto:GARDENS@LSV.UKY.EDU] On Behalf Of
skraeling
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 8:19 PM
To: GARDENS@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: fire ants
I am planning my first garden and am VERY excited about it...(unfortunately
nobody I know is and they are SICK of hearing me yack about my seedlings,
etc....). Anyway, last week, I had a neighbor till up the area I wanted. I
was out there this morning evening it out and raking the dead grass out and
oopps....too bad for me, before I noticed it, I was bitten? stung? by a
couple of fire ants.
Well these guys have GOT to go, right? Or do I need to find a new locatiion
for my garden? Is there any poison safe to use in a garden, don't really
want to though as I was going to go the organic route?
Thanks for helping a newbie..
Karen G in AL
I heard that you can take a tea kettle of boiling water out and pour it right
in the nest, that will work wonders. It doesnt put unwanted chemicals in your
garden and kills the ants instantly. Good luck!
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C2C333.AA038120
http://www.garden-ville.com/Auntie_Fuego_Soil_Conditioner.htm
Someone asked about fireants, this organic product claims to control =
them. no idea if it works.
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C2C333.AA038120
:
> I didn't see anything there about fire ants, just that it was
something
> aunts (and uncles) would like. I did notice that they seem to believe
that
> Howard Garret (aka Dr. Dirt) knew something about gardening, but IMHO
that
> guy is another Jerry Baker.
I saw some Houston guy with his own garden page (just an ordinary guy) say
it worked for him with fire ants. I think the "aunts" and "hills" etc is
just being cutsey, but they do mean ants.
Howdy folks,
In regard to this message:
I have to come to J.Howard Garret's defense here. He is the Organic
gardening spokesman for our neighbors in the Distant North ( Dallas ) Which
has been a much harder job than promoting organic gardening in wild and
wooly Austin, Texas. Dallas is so hardcore synthetic that for a awhile they
were trying to be the Azalea capitol of the world which made a lot of
landscapers rich considering how totally unsuited the plants were to that
soil.
For Texas gardeners his plant guide "Plants for Texas" is highly
recomended. He lists a lot of plants with the appelation "Don't Plant" which
I appreciate when trying to talk a customer out of dwarf Nandinas. ( His
description that in the summer they look like 'chloratic basketball' is
dead-on.
As far as Garden-Ville goes they are out of San Antonio and are a good
company with decades of organic experience here in Central Texas. Garret
sells Garden-Ville on his web site but it is not actually his product, You
can do a search of Malcolm Beck the founder of Garden-Ville and come up with
some of the gardening books and articles he has written.
I'd still check out the Texas A&M website:
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu
and check their extensive coverage of fireant control methods.
I have a soft spot for Texas A&M because they were kind enough to put my
photo up on their chess club web page when I finished second in their annual
Chess tournamnent.
y'all take care
Steve Coyle
www.austingardencenter.com
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2C385.32DE6EA0
Jonathon wrote:
Someone asked about fireants, this organic product claims to control =
them. no idea if it works.
I didn't see anything there about fire ants, just that it was =
something aunts (and uncles) would like. I did notice that they seem to =
believe that Howard Garret (aka Dr. Dirt) knew something about =
gardening, but IMHO that guy is another Jerry Baker.
Kimm
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2C385.32DE6EA0
Howdy folks,
In regards to this message:
> I saw some Houston guy with his own garden page (just an ordinary guy) say
> it worked for him with fire ants.
A friend of mine in Austin, Joe Cirone, runs an organic production
garden for a restaurant here in Austin and swears by cirtus oil which aside
from Garden-VIlle products is sold under other brand names. I visit his
garden on a regular basis, and have an interview with him up on our web
page. The gardens are open to the public so he has to keep a sharp eye on
fire ant control.
Steve Coyle
www.austingardencenter.com
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Steve, I have a soft place in my heart for Brownsville, Texas. In November of 1958 my Danish husband and I hitchhiked through Texas. Was it ever barren and freezing. I remember a town called Emma or some girl's name where we stood freezing for hours. Finally the next day we got to Brownsville where it was lush, summer and gorgeous.
(Then on to Mexico).
Carol
Here is a problem with our California garden. Southern Fire Ants. Last
year they ate my cantalopes and asian pears. I'm sure they were chased
into my yard by the community's pest control company. Is there anything
I can do to these guys short of the granular bait? Borax bait didn't do
anything to them, it was like fire ant junk food.
I am in Cali too-San Joaquin Valley. I had fire ants in my yard
when I moved in. The yard had been severely neglected for I don't
know how long before we moved in, but the grass was dead, and the
soil was dry, crumbly, and sandy. It was fire ant heaven!!
I dug the top four inches or so from the top of their home, and
poured steaming hot water into their chambers. I repeated it twice
a day for 3 or four days, mulched and watered and I haven't seen
another one. That was two years ago. I know they are nearby, they
moved into the alleyway, but they now stay completely away from my
garden and my son's playstuff.
Hope it helps...good luck!
Peace, Kyrina
--- In seedsofchange@yahoogroups.com, "chilesprout"
> Here is a problem with our California garden. Southern Fire
Ants. Last
> year they ate my cantalopes and asian pears. I'm sure they were
chased
> into my yard by the community's pest control company. Is there
anything
> I can do to these guys short of the granular bait? Borax bait
didn't do
Don't know about fire ants but I had a ant hill by my catalpa (sp?) tree that I couldn't get rid of for fear of harming the tree. One day I just said "If I have to get a new tree so be it. Them ants have to go." I poured vinegar (5%) all over it and down the hole. Ants are gone and tree is if fine. that was two years ago and still no signs of any returning.
Good Luck, Beverly
----- Original Message -----
From: chilesprout
To: seedsofchange@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:46 PM
Subject: [seedsofchange] Fire ants
Here is a problem with our California garden. Southern Fire Ants. Last
year they ate my cantalopes and asian pears. I'm sure they were chased
into my yard by the community's pest control company. Is there anything
I can do to these guys short of the granular bait? Borax bait didn't do
anything to them, it was like fire ant junk food.
Oh, and that fella's recommendation to apply dry instant grits to the
fire-ant mounds - *DON'T*. That does nothing more than feed the ants.
The grits myth evolved from pest control people applying grits that had
been soaked in boric acid. Ants love grits - sans the boric acid and
you'll be growing the mound and have some happy well fed ants. Soak the
grits in a weak boric acid solution and you've got yourself what we call
"ant bait".
Be well,
Mike
--
Zone 8, Texas
http://www.taroandti.com/ Exotic Plants and More...
http://www.mjv.com/ Home...
Bryan C wrote:
any one have some good advice on getting rid of fire ants?
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
kAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEbXNnSWQDODYwMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExNzgzNzk1Mz=
AEdHBjSWQDOTg3> (0) Reply (via web post)
NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEbXNnSWQDODYwMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE=
xNzgzNzk1MzA-?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D8602> | Start a new topic
MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ3MzU4NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR=
zdGltZQMxMTc4Mzc5NTMw>
Messages
2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMTc4Mzc5NTMw> | Files
cElkAzQ3MzU4NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTE=
3ODM3OTUzMA--> | Photos
MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMTc4Mzc5NTMw> | Links
3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ3MzU4NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGlua3=
MEc3RpbWUDMTE3ODM3OTUzMA--> | Database
4NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZGIEc3RpbWUDMTE3ODM3OTUzMA--> =
| Members
2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMTc4Mzc5NTMw> | Calendar
E0BGdycElkAzQ3MzU4NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDY2FsBHN0aW1lA=
zExNzgzNzk1MzA->
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
nBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzExNzgzNzk1MzA->
Change settings via the Web
E3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDc3RuZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE3ODM3OTUzMA--> (Yahoo! ID =
required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
tch format to Traditional
Visit Your Group
2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmBHN0aW1lAzExNzgzNzk1MzA-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use <=
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> | Unsubscribe
Recent Activity
*
5
New Members
Ec2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm1icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE3ODM3OTUzMA-->
*
3
New Photos
VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdnBob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE3ODM3OTUzMA-->
Visit Your Group
2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxMTc4Mzc5NTMw>
Boil a large pot of water.
Take a spade or shovel and dig up one shovel of the nest.
Pour the boiling hot water on the nest.
I used to do it in Texas with success.
Let me know if it works for you.
Dan
Rochester Hills, Michigan
ups.com>
[mailto:Organic_Gardening@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 5:49 AM
To: Organic_Gardening@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Organic_Gardening] fire ants
any one have some good advice on getting rid of fire ants?
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic
kAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEbXNnSWQDODYwNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExNzg0MjY2Mj=
IEdHBjSWQDOTg3> (0) Reply (via web post)
NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEbXNnSWQDODYwNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE=
xNzg0MjY2MjI-?act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D8606> | Start a new topic
MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ3MzU4NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR=
zdGltZQMxMTc4NDI2NjIy>
Messages
2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMTc4NDI2NjIy> | Files
cElkAzQ3MzU4NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTE=
3ODQyNjYyMg--> | Photos
MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMTc4NDI2NjIy> | Links
3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ3MzU4NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGlua3=
MEc3RpbWUDMTE3ODQyNjYyMg--> | Database
4NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZGIEc3RpbWUDMTE3ODQyNjYyMg--> =
| Members
2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMTc4NDI2NjIy> | Calendar
E0BGdycElkAzQ3MzU4NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDY2FsBHN0aW1lA=
zExNzg0MjY2MjI->
[http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]
nBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzExNzg0MjY2MjI->
Change settings via the Web
E3MDUwNDE5NDcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDc3RuZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE3ODQyNjYyMg--> (Yahoo! ID =
required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest
tch format to Traditional
Visit Your Group
2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmBHN0aW1lAzExNzg0MjY2MjI-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use <=
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> | Unsubscribe
Recent Activity
*
5
New Members
Ec2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm1icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE3ODQyNjYyMg-->
*
3
New Photos
VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdnBob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE3ODQyNjYyMg-->
Visit Your Group
2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxMTc4NDI2NjIy>
But how do you locate the nest?
Khushroo
----------------------------------------------------------
Boil a large pot of water.
Take a spade or shovel and dig up one shovel of the nest.
Pour the boiling hot water on the nest.
I used to do it in Texas with success.
Let me know if it works for you.
Dan
Rochester Hills, Michigan
When you do use the shovel on their nest, if they start running up the
shovel handle, DROP IT and run. They are aggressive and the bites hurt for
a long time.......days...weeks, and the scars from the bites last even
longer. I know. RayF
ps.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 1:30 AM
Subject: [Organic_Gardening] Re: fire ants
